Haste/dps question for those playing 85 beta.

Paladin
Are you able to get a 3sec CS in T11? At how much haste is this possible? I've read upwards of 50% haste is needed.... this hurts me deep inside if true. The most I can manage in my t11 is 13.93%

O.o

If this is true, at what point does Haste become a waste of time? In my t11, I've got hit/exp capped and the rest reforged to haste. That only leaves me with 6% crit and 13% mastery.... I'm feelin all messed up about this.

On test dummys I'm doing a constant 11.7k dps using all 3 cooldowns. I'm interested to know if anyone's doing much better and how you've reforged yourself. When I get a chance, I'm going to reforge all to Mastery, and then all to Crit to see if I can find some kind of a balance.

What are your experiences so far?
Are you able to get a 3sec CS in T11? At how much haste is this possible? I've read upwards of 50% haste is needed.... this hurts me deep inside if true. The most I can manage in my t11 is 13.93%

If this is true, at what point does Haste become a waste of time? In my t11, I've got hit/exp capped and the rest reforged to haste. That only leaves me with 6% crit and 13% mastery.... I'm feelin all messed up about this.


No, you cannot. To reach 3.00 CS you need roughly 33.00% haste, 9% haste from JotP, and 5% haste from Shadow Priest or Shaman. In T11 it's possible to have a trinket proc to reach this amount, but at a rating conversion of roughly 128 rating - 1%, you need about 4,227 rating, which cannot be achieved in T11 through static on-gear ratings. However, there is a trinket proc of 1,926 haste, which gives you a "soft cap" of about 2300 rating on gear, which is a little higher than practical to hit in T11.


On test dummys I'm doing a constant 11.7k dps using all 3 cooldowns. I'm interested to know if anyone's doing much better and how you've reforged yourself. When I get a chance, I'm going to reforge all to Mastery, and then all to Crit to see if I can find some kind of a balance.



Over duration of about 40-50 seconds, 828,595 damage done, about 13,000 DPS (printscreen lag caused me to dip below 13k when I pressed the button, grr).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/humanicevil/WoWScrnShot_112010_070926-1.jpg

Over about 15 minute duration, 8,797,317 damage done, fluctuating from about 12,470 to 12,500 depending on RNG.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/humanicevil/WoWScrnShot_112010_072008-1.jpg

I had a few messups (not really used to this UI for HP tracking) so I had a few of those "grats, you just casted CD when you had 3HP" incidents during the longer test.

Buffs I used was the leftover flask from some instance I was doing, and blessing of might. No other buffs.

Rough priority rotation I was using:

    (Inquisition inactive) AoW proc'd - Inquisition (any HP)
    AoW Exorcism
    3HP Inquisition < 6 secs left on previous Inquisition
    Zealotry
    Hammer of Wrath (During Avenging Wrath)
    3HP Templar's Verdict
    Avenging Wrath
    Hammer of Wrath
    Crusader Strike
    Sub-3hp w/ HoL - Templar's Verdict (or, if sub 6 seconds on Inquisition, Inq.)
    Judgement
    Holy Wrath


Rotation feels extremely RNG heavy. Early on I chain procced and was riding 14k DPS for almost a minute, and then I spent another minute without any procs and dropped down to 11k, when cooldowns came back up and I was able to edge back over 12k. It's a bit frustrating to have a DPS swing of that magnitude be completely out of your control.

Comparing to other classes, I can maintain 12.8k-13.2k as an enhance shaman on the same target dummy - and searing totem doesn't attack target dummies.
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.

Are you telling me that T11 at 85 results in LESS DPS than T10 at 80? :(

I think this is pretty standard across the board to all DPS and healers. The problem is by and large the rating requirements to get appropriate levels of crit and haste to bring T11 numbers on par with T10.
These are unbuffed DPS numbers, people are pulling 18k easily in fully buffed raid environments, which last I checked, is a large improvement over what's available in wrath.
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.


If you can't cap it on turning 85 then ret is incredibly boring to play, it is too clunky at 85.

It either needs to scale better or SoB needs to be a flat 3s CD
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.


If you can't cap it on turning 85 then ret is incredibly boring to play, it is too clunky at 85.

It either needs to scale better or SoB needs to be a flat 3s CD


not everything is perfect at gear levels, Go back to naxx, now imagine being hit capped, expertise capped, and having tons of haste. It's not possible.

Ulduar..still not really possible, ToC <-- all offset gear had +hit so still not possible.

ICC it's possible.



Over duration of about 40-50 seconds, 828,595 damage done, about 13,000 DPS (printscreen lag caused me to dip below 13k when I pressed the button, grr).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/humanicevil/WoWScrnShot_112010_070926-1.jpg

Over about 15 minute duration, 8,797,317 damage done, fluctuating from about 12,470 to 12,500 depending on RNG.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/humanicevil/WoWScrnShot_112010_072008-1.jpg

I had a few messups (not really used to this UI for HP tracking) so I had a few of those "grats, you just casted CD when you had 3HP" incidents during the longer test.

Buffs I used was the leftover flask from some instance I was doing, and blessing of might. No other buffs.

Rough priority rotation I was using:

    (Inquisition inactive) AoW proc'd - Inquisition (any HP)
    AoW Exorcism
    3HP Inquisition < 6 secs left on previous Inquisition
    Zealotry
    Hammer of Wrath (During Avenging Wrath)
    3HP Templar's Verdict
    Avenging Wrath
    Hammer of Wrath
    Crusader Strike
    Sub-3hp w/ HoL - Templar's Verdict (or, if sub 6 seconds on Inquisition, Inq.)
    Judgement
    Holy Wrath


Rotation feels extremely RNG heavy. Early on I chain procced and was riding 14k DPS for almost a minute, and then I spent another minute without any procs and dropped down to 11k, when cooldowns came back up and I was able to edge back over 12k. It's a bit frustrating to have a DPS swing of that magnitude be completely out of your control.

Comparing to other classes, I can maintain 12.8k-13.2k as an enhance shaman on the same target dummy - and searing totem doesn't attack target dummies.



Oops been away for a few days.

Those are better numbers than mine and I wish I could see your gear. Can you tell me what your ap, crit, haste and mastery are at? And which weapon enchant and which meta gem did you chose? Your rotation is a bit different than mine so I'll try changing it up.

I'm interested in anyone else that will post, too. I don't get many responses on the beta forums -_-
so once hit and expertise capped where do we go since we are clearly unable to reach haste soft untill later on do you try for mastery tier 11 ret pally looks kinda ugly at this point imo
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.


If you can't cap it on turning 85 then ret is incredibly boring to play, it is too clunky at 85.

It either needs to scale better or SoB needs to be a flat 3s CD


not everything is perfect at gear levels, Go back to naxx, now imagine being hit capped, expertise capped, and having tons of haste. It's not possible.

Ulduar..still not really possible, ToC <-- all offset gear had +hit so still not possible.

ICC it's possible.


Ritalyn you are not really making a fair comparison. Without the hit or exp cap you still get to press all your buttons. In naxx and ulduar ret you might have been missing more and being dodged more but ret was still fun to play.

Without 3s CS then ret feels absolutely horrible to play. It is too clunky, you are doing: CS, wait a GCD, X, Wait a GCD, wait a bit more even if a spell (other than TV) is available, CS...

The reason I have spent most of beta complaining about SoB is the damage it does to how fun ret is to play. SoB, more so than our poor 31 pointer, tedious level 81 spell and fun but broken mastery, makes ret feel horrible to play.
so once hit and expertise capped where do we go since we are clearly unable to reach haste soft untill later on do you try for mastery tier 11 ret pally looks kinda ugly at this point imo


In PvE you just reforge all the crit and mastery you can to haste. But it is unlikely that the cap will ever be achievable at level 85 unless they fix SoB.
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.


If you can't cap it on turning 85 then ret is incredibly boring to play, it is too clunky at 85.

It either needs to scale better or SoB needs to be a flat 3s CD


not everything is perfect at gear levels, Go back to naxx, now imagine being hit capped, expertise capped, and having tons of haste. It's not possible.

Ulduar..still not really possible, ToC <-- all offset gear had +hit so still not possible.

ICC it's possible.


Ritalyn you are not really making a fair comparison. Without the hit or exp cap you still get to press all your buttons. In naxx and ulduar ret you might have been missing more and being dodged more but ret was still fun to play.

Without 3s CS then ret feels absolutely horrible to play. It is too clunky, you are doing: CS, wait a GCD, X, Wait a GCD, wait a bit more even if a spell (other than TV) is available, CS...

The reason I have spent most of beta complaining about SoB is the damage it does to how fun ret is to play. SoB, more so than our poor 31 pointer, tedious level 81 spell and fun but broken mastery, makes ret feel horrible to play.


I havn't played beta, so all i have to go by is how it is now. And how it will be once haste cap is reached in cata.

Oh i know ret is clunky without haste, and zealotry clashing with wings is just...silly. And yah the constant nerfing of holy damage and our 81 talent giving us holy damage is just bleh.

I never hopped on the crowd of "when we get inquisition our damage is better!!". I just really have a hard time seeing blizzard change anything. I think in their eyes they have it perfect.
IF you could get haste capped with the 1st set of gear from the expansion, There really wouldn't be much of a point for later teirs, except more strenght/crit.


If you can't cap it on turning 85 then ret is incredibly boring to play, it is too clunky at 85.

It either needs to scale better or SoB needs to be a flat 3s CD


not everything is perfect at gear levels, Go back to naxx, now imagine being hit capped, expertise capped, and having tons of haste. It's not possible.

Ulduar..still not really possible, ToC <-- all offset gear had +hit so still not possible.

ICC it's possible.


Ritalyn you are not really making a fair comparison. Without the hit or exp cap you still get to press all your buttons. In naxx and ulduar ret you might have been missing more and being dodged more but ret was still fun to play.

Without 3s CS then ret feels absolutely horrible to play. It is too clunky, you are doing: CS, wait a GCD, X, Wait a GCD, wait a bit more even if a spell (other than TV) is available, CS...

The reason I have spent most of beta complaining about SoB is the damage it does to how fun ret is to play. SoB, more so than our poor 31 pointer, tedious level 81 spell and fun but broken mastery, makes ret feel horrible to play.


I havn't played beta, so all i have to go by is how it is now. And how it will be once haste cap is reached in cata.

Oh i know ret is clunky without haste, and zealotry clashing with wings is just...silly. And yah the constant nerfing of holy damage and our 81 talent giving us holy damage is just bleh.

I never hopped on the crowd of "when we get inquisition our damage is better!!". I just really have a hard time seeing blizzard change anything. I think in their eyes they have it perfect.


From my reading of how much haste it would currently take to get 3s CS then it will never be achievable at level 85. Not even in the very last content patch (well, if they realize that combined 10 and 25 player lock outs don't work and end up with massive stat inflation again then it might happen).

If you want to see how ret will feel at level 85 reforge some of your haste to crit and go and beat up a target dummy.

Because so few rets are even commenting on how ret will feel to play at 85 I honestly think that most of them have no clue about what happens to our currently fun rotation.

Well, either that or I am really missing something about how fun it is to wait around for CS even when you had things available to press. It could well be that I am just missing something.
You're not missing anything. The spec feels worse at 85. That's why I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong. It feels too slow and too fast at the same time, it's bizarre. If I'm not doing my stats correctly or if my rotation is bad I will happily correct it, but I won't be playing ret at 85 if this is for real...

It's too slow because of the haste issue. Inquisition also feels slow as it is a huge pain in the ass for about a measly 300 dps increase in perfect conditions. Inquisition makes you wait for 4-6 CS before you can even use a tv, and you also have to make sure you've got enough time left on Inq before you pop Zeal.

Ret can also feel too fast because of the massive RNG procs going on. You also have to add another cooldown to manage with your guardian. Then you have to add the Inquisition timer to keep track of as well. It can all make your head spin and really just feels like a cluster!%%@.

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