Tanking H Shamans

Paladin
So I typically play ret, but tonight my guild is going for a heroic shamans kill, and was wondering for some general advice on strats and glyphs, etc.

I will be in the Haromm group, and I know I should spec towards Hand of Purity to help with the dot.

Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks.
I've found Unbreakable Spirit to be much more of a boon to survivability. Also, Holy Avenger is a great talent, because each 1 in 2 times you'll be tanking, it'll be up.

As for glyphs : Hand of Sacrifice is useful here to help people with Iron Prison out (if not using a BoP to entirely bypass it).
Do you do Haromm or Kardris? And I'm assuming you 3 tank correct?
Harmon, we have a monk on Kardiss and yes we 3 tank.
So I'm assuming EF for the hot self healing is still the best for this boss? What lvl 90 talent? I have been running ES, should I stick with it? If so, is it best used for healing or dps?

Also, thanks for the input so far.
Harmon is the fun one. I am the kardiss tank for our H Shamans kill. Just a lot of kiting around for me.
Haromm :P stupid iPhone auto correct :(

I use Holy Prism. It damages the boss and heals everyone around it. Yes, EF with 4pc is strong here, you can blanket players around you when not actively tanking and get it ticking quickly on yourself as soon as you taunt.
02/17/2014 06:16 AMPosted by Berith
As for glyphs : Hand of Sacrifice is useful here to help people with Iron Prison out (if not using a BoP to entirely bypass it).
But if he's in the Haromm group then he won't be near anyone that gets the prison...
As a ret paladin whose tank this enough, get Holy avenger, spam that !@#$ hard. It should be up every 3rd go around to tanking, at which point you should use it and gain as much SoTR uptime as you can. The stacking tank debuff occurs every 7 seconds, make sure you have SoTR up for it, and use guardian 2 seconds prior to the 4th stack of the debuff as it lasts 12 seconds and will reduce the damage of both the 4th and 5th stack by 50% plus all the damage inbetween.

Use eternal flame as a tank because the healing dot you can get on yourself is quite high, don't glyph divine protection for the physical damage reduction, you have enough damage reduction as it is. Keep it unglyphed and use it everytime for falling ash to reduce the damage you take. We usually do a tank swap when ashen wall comes out, but if the times dont work well with that, have it drop behind you, run forward, then tank him and slowly get your way back facing the same way as before. you don't need to rush getting there, and they dont need to be so close together. The biggest issue I see is that tanks will get him by the wall too many times. It's not huge damage on them, but it's a pain in the %^- from a healer's perspective.

If you kite the dogs up there, try to tank both while the other tank has haromm. Gain Rend stacks, it deals physical damage and if you have SoTR going (which you should as soon as you taunt and get upwards to 20-30seconds uptime). You gain an absolute ton of vengeance from this, the rend stack (assuming you manage your cds) doesn't tick for that hard and because of this you can get some 150k ticks on your eternal flame.

Glyph into avenger's shield, making it deal 30% more but hitting 1 target. The damage on the boss is much more vital than that on the dogs, You ideally wanna have the dogs die around 40% to help with meeting the dps requirement, as it can be quite tight if 1 group is missing lusts/buffs.
02/17/2014 11:48 AMPosted by Pancakê
But if he's in the Haromm group then he won't be near anyone that gets the prison...


Just beat me to it pancake.

Additionally, Haromm's debuff is frost damage, not physical, and SOTR only mitigates physical damage. That being said, unglyphed divine protection is very nice on this fight to absorb the magic damage if you're having trouble living through the stacks.

Not sure why everyone is championing holy avenger on this fight. I found divine purpose to be much more useful..

If you wanna be really slick use your DP procs for free eternal flames on your raid members without dampening your mitigation when you are tanking the boss.

Also, hand of purity rocks on this fight for two reasons.

1. The Haromm dot HURTS and you can pretty much negate the last 6 seconds (i.e. the worst part) every time (30 second cd lines up perfectly with constant poison mist casts)

2. The extra 30 second wait on Divine Protection is meaningless considering you are only tanking the boss half the time anyway. The extra time on Divine Shield is irrelevant and the extra cd on lay on hands isn't going to make a difference.

Additional tips:

1. Use hand of sacrifice on the poison stream target as often as you can, or at least throw an eternal flame on him immediately, it has one shot potential on heroic.

2. Make sure you know when falling ash is incoming and everyone is topped off, use Devotion Aura to soften the blow if your healer is struggling.

3. Regarding the Ash Walls, make sure haromm is in the corner to start, and just start painting them away from the wall as you go, if you can stack them on top of each other (pop a cooldown before you back into the previous one) all the better.

4. EF blanket whenever you aren't tanking, it helps, a lot, particularly around the time the bosses lust because you'll have plenty of vengeance by then.

Best of luck.
I was about to write something and then figured I'd just look at your logs to see how it went. At a cursory glance seems like you didn't die prematurely/cause any wipes.
02/17/2014 11:48 AMPosted by Pancakê
But if he's in the Haromm group then he won't be near anyone that gets the prison...

Depending on when you spread the bosses the first set might go out.
Here are my logs from last night: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gkc9k4163ad5tw87/

First off, it wasn't a very productive night for us as a group - our bear tank that tanked with me got delayed on a flight and we actually didn't get to start working on the boss until an hour after our scheduled start, and when we have that big of a gap for our group where we are waiting, it isn't good.

However, I didn't feel like I had survivability issues. All of us up top took a ton of damage all night, and maybe I took more than I should have and that led to our healers up top being stressed (if you notice our healers that were up top had a hard time staying alive).

Please feel free to go through the log and point out errors of mine as you see them. Things I know I did incorrectly - didn't always get DP up right before 4th strike, wasn't quick on getting EF rolling after first strike, didn't spread my EF to others while not tanking, probably held onto my defensive CD's too long at times, didn't use HP near enough, etc.

Wish we could've gotten more attempts, we never really did get into the thick of things, we only got past 50% a couple of times and didn't get to deal with the raid wide falling ash damage, and definitely didn't experience a bloodlust phase.

I know a lot of you said to use HA, but I went against it and used SW, mainly because it is one extra button to throw into the mix. I certainly need more practice at prot, the rotation felt clunky to me all night, which shows in dps and probably in my hp generation.

Anyway, feel free to look at the logs and critique me. If you see anything we did that didn't make sense as a group, please point that out too.

One question I do have, is for the groups that have a melee - do you take your melee up top, or leave them at the bottom with kardris? We took our rogue up top with me, the bear, the shammy, and the monk.

Thanks, and all input so far has been appreciated and any further will be appreciated as well.
Ugh, Sanctified Wrath as prot. Don't use that. Woah I saw wrong spec. Anyways, SW is pretty terrible.
Yeah, the only reason I used it last night is because I was already uncomfortable with the rotation, and I didn't want to add another button the mix. I definitely see why SW is weaker than HA.

One thing I left out before, our group was taking the bosses to sub 95% before the split, so somebody in my group was regularly getting Iron Prison. It wasn't awful once they got the hang of looking to see if they had it, but it was a pain when two people in our group got it. Rng will be rng.
Tbh you really don't need 2 healers on top, you should be fine with just bring you+druid+rogue+shaman.
Technically speaking, you can do it with only 2 tanks being on top (druid+paladin being one of the best comps), however since prot is not your MS i wouldn't advise it.
But with shaman+rogue you should be more than fine. (healing rain op)
02/18/2014 10:37 AMPosted by Liminara
Tbh you really don't need 2 healers on top, you should be fine with just bring you+druid+rogue+shaman.
Technically speaking, you can do it with only 2 tanks being on top (druid+paladin being one of the best comps), however since prot is not your MS i wouldn't advise it.
But with shaman+rogue you should be more than fine. (healing rain op)


Interesting. What happens with Toxic Mists and Iron Tombs if it is just us two up top? Can you link a guide or explanation on how to do this?
02/17/2014 09:15 PMPosted by Jirek
If you wanna be really slick use your DP procs for free eternal flames on your raid members without dampening your mitigation when you are tanking the boss.
Uh, no matter what, every time you cast EF on another party member it takes away from your survival (when you are tanking). It doesn't matter if it was "free" or not, it was still an proc that you could have used for your own survival (in essence they're not actually "free" at all, they cost you a proc).

Now if you meant to say when you are not tanking the boss then that's another story as SotR isn't as critical to your survival when nobody is punching you (though if you want to get technical, EFing someone else instead of using SotR could potentially cost you a bog stack, which would effect your survival).

Not saying to never EF other people, just pointing out that doing so always has a cost associated with it, which you should be aware of when doing so.
02/18/2014 10:48 AMPosted by Maegoree
Interesting. What happens with Toxic Mists and Iron Tombs if it is just us two up top? Can you link a guide or explanation on how to do this?


It goes on a tank, which can be beneficial since tanks have more damage reduction tools than anyone, it can possibly be dicey on progression though just because if you get a perfect storm of damage you could theoretically get one shot, but if you use cooldowns you should be ok.

Basically then you just permanently hand of purity the healer, while popping minor cooldowns whenever you or the other tank feels threatened.

Just sending three up there also means you should have no trouble keeping EF up on everyone.

I haven't played around with SW as prot since I got my vial but I could see it no being that far behind SA. considering Vial reduces the CD on AW just like EEoG reduced the CD on AW. Still, if you want a "no extra button to hit option" divine purpose is the best at that, just have to watch for procs and that even shows up on the blizzard default UI.
02/18/2014 10:48 AMPosted by Maegoree
Interesting. What happens with Toxic Mists and Iron Tombs if it is just us two up top? Can you link a guide or explanation on how to do this?

You get same double tomb and the debuff goes on the tanks. Basically a prot i would reforge mastery if doing this.
I can look up the youtube video (i believe it was by one of the tanks from top part), and there's a druid from that guild posting on tanks forum.
But with only 2 tanking it's much better to go for 30 sec dp.
If you are sending a healer up, you might as well send the rogue. and guarantee debuff not going on tanks. (and allow tanks to not move for iron tombs)

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