Simplifying currency? That's the grand plan?

General Discussion
Prev 1 3 4 5 22 Next
03/02/2014 10:05 AMPosted by Dawnstríke
03/02/2014 09:58 AMPosted by Indyana
Badges were one of the worst ideas Blizzard ever came up with. For many Guilds in TBC the introduction of Badge gear (which could be farmed in outdated and weaker content) effectively killed their progression. It became hard to convince players to learn fights and deal with wipes when equivalent gear could be had by face rolling Heroics and Kara.

I do agree though that the issue of bad luck streaks is real and I don't know if Charms can ever be the only the answer like Watcher claims. I can see what they're trying to do and I agree with the philosophy but it's a tough to balance a system so reliant on RNG.


Good job ignoring the positive benefits of things like the points system whereby people were able to catch up to current content more easily.

Shifting towards RNG as a preferred loot gain system essentially forces people into older content to get to current content, i.e. gating.


Good job ignoring the fact that Badges in TBC meant players no longer had to progress to increase their power level. Until Badges Wow was built on the premise that each Tier of content not only offered better rewards but also brought harder mechanics. Better gear plus overcoming more difficult challenges allowed players to face the next level of content. We did this from Onyxia to MC to BWL all the way to SSC and TK. Then we got Badges.

Badges meant a player could stop progressing as a player (skill-wise) but still progress in gear power via outdated and non-challenging content. The moment Badges were introduced was a turning point in WOW. The negative effect of badges has been discussed since then and it seems obvious the devs know they made a mistake...hence no more Valor gear in SOO as an example.

Badges/Points for Gear would be fine if the currency only dropped in content that already dropped gear of the same iLevel. Then it would serve the purpose of balancing bad RNG luck as opposed to allowing players to get gear above the level of the content as we had until Siege.
03/02/2014 10:34 AMPosted by Sayne
You are in a raid to get item x that drops off a boss. It doesn't drop, so you buy a different item from the valor vender that might not even be the same item slot because it isn't available from a valor vender that tier. You aren't getting what you want because you are buying a different item. Try to keep up. If you wanted that different item that is what you would have gone after in the first place. They are improving coin rolls to make sure you actually get that first item you wanted in the first place that didn't drop.

For the rest of your drivel please don't put words in my mouth to create your argument because I didn't say any of that.


You are still, theoretically at least, gearing up. And the itemization is not really that much of a factor for the tiers of raiding where Valor gear actually matters, and will be less so with the stat changes.
03/02/2014 10:36 AMPosted by Dawnstríke
03/02/2014 10:34 AMPosted by Sayne
You are in a raid to get item x that drops off a boss. It doesn't drop, so you buy a different item from the valor vender that might not even be the same item slot because it isn't available from a valor vender that tier. You aren't getting what you want because you are buying a different item. Try to keep up. If you wanted that different item that is what you would have gone after in the first place. They are improving coin rolls to make sure you actually get that first item you wanted in the first place that didn't drop.

For the rest of your drivel please don't put words in my mouth to create your argument because I didn't say any of that.


You are still, theoretically at least, gearing up. And the itemization is not really that much of a factor for the tiers of raiding where Valor gear actually matters, and will be less so with the stat changes.


And with the changes they make you should still be gearing up at the same rate only you actually are getting what you want. You are applying changes to a different model to our current one even though valor isn't a substantial part of the gearing up process this tier.
03/02/2014 10:34 AMPosted by Sayne


You are in a raid to get item x that drops off a boss. It doesn't drop, so you buy a different item from the valor vender that might not even be the same item slot because it isn't available from a valor vender that tier. You aren't getting what you want because you are buying a different item. Try to keep up. If you wanted that different item that is what you would have gone after in the first place. They are improving coin rolls to make sure you actually get that first item you wanted in the first place that didn't drop.

For the rest of your drivel please don't put words in my mouth to create your argument because I didn't say any of that.


It pretty much sounded as if you were. If that wasn't the case you should be more clear since you are still pushing what you view as correct and trying to make me see that it should be the ONLY way. And your "drivel" isn't really looking like you view any other aspect of the game but a raid as necessary. This isn't your game, other options are beneficial. They aren't as perfect as raid items nor should they be, that's perfectly fine. Enjoy your chance at items, I like having a measurable goal to strive for.

And who says I don't only go for the valor options when they are close to the level of the raid options? I know I will for sure be able to get them. It gives me a target to strive for. If I get the drop on the way that's an unexpected benefit because it means I can go for a different valor or crafted item. It doesn't mean that the RNG way is the best and only way to get drops and that the valor way is just stupid and shouldn't exist.
03/02/2014 10:39 AMPosted by Ashendal
03/02/2014 10:34 AMPosted by Sayne


You are in a raid to get item x that drops off a boss. It doesn't drop, so you buy a different item from the valor vender that might not even be the same item slot because it isn't available from a valor vender that tier. You aren't getting what you want because you are buying a different item. Try to keep up. If you wanted that different item that is what you would have gone after in the first place. They are improving coin rolls to make sure you actually get that first item you wanted in the first place that didn't drop.

For the rest of your drivel please don't put words in my mouth to create your argument because I didn't say any of that.


It pretty much sounded as if you were. If that wasn't the case you should be more clear since you are still pushing what you view as correct and trying to make me see that it should be the ONLY way. And your "drivel" isn't really looking like you view any other aspect of the game but a raid as necessary. This isn't your game, other options are beneficial. They aren't as perfect as raid items nor should they be, that's perfectly fine. Enjoy your chance at items, I like having a measurable goal to strive for.

And who says I don't only go for the valor options when they are close to the level of the raid options? I know I will for sure be able to get them. It gives me a target to strive for. If I get the drop on the way that's an unexpected benefit because it means I can go for a different valor or crafted item. It doesn't mean that the RNG way is the best and only way to get drops and that the valor way is just stupid and shouldn't exist.


You really read what you want to read and apply a lot of bias to people who might have a differing opinion. You are still projecting a lot of crap that I haven't said nor even think onto me. When you actually wish to discuss things without resorting to making up things about me I'll try again.
03/02/2014 10:36 AMPosted by Indyana
Badges meant a player could stop progressing as a player (skill-wise) but still progress in gear power via outdated and non-challenging content. The moment Badges were introduced was a turning point in WOW. The negative effect of badges has been discussed since then and it seems obvious the devs know they made a mistake...hence no more Valor gear in SOO as an example.


You madam have made the most valid point on the thread. I think this is the mentality we as player a player base need embrace.
Everyone says they like BC raiding, so bring back that system....
03/02/2014 08:02 AMPosted by Ashendal
Don't change what's not broke

Thank god people actually do not believe this else we would still be diving Model Ts.
03/02/2014 08:19 AMPosted by Ashendal
You can't make an RNG more intelligent. I've been trying.


Then you suck at programming. Pseudo code follows

function rollloot(struct * loottable, int playerid)

struct * rolltable = alloc()

for item in loottable
if item.weapon
if playerCanDuelWield(playerid) && playerNumItem(item, playerid) < 2
addItemToTable(rolltable, item)
elsif item.unique && !playerNumItem(item, playerid)
addItemToTable(rolltable, item)
else
addItemToTable(rolltable, item)

int wonitem = rand() % rolltable.length

return getItem(rolltable, wonitem)

Blizzard can very well make RNG more intelligent. They choose not to.


You broke SMF Fury with a Protection offspec.

It's a dual wielding class that will use 3 one-handed weapons (3 because they take different weapon enchants).

Not to mention completely blocked my ability to get a warforged item if I already have a non-warforged item.

And since how WoD's tertiary stats are going to be allocated hasn't been disclosed, if they work like warforged items, it ensures that I will never be able to get an item with better tertiary stat (i.e., Amp instead of Cleave) unless I destroy the "bad" tertiary stat one first.

In other words, as with all things related to software, it just looks easy, until you get to the details and things just blow up in your face.

A better approach would be to just leave it to the user to decide which pieces should be "on the loot table" and which "off the loot table".

But then that's no different than what we had with VP system, just minus the silly point tracking mechanism.
03/02/2014 11:01 AMPosted by Solaru
Thank god people actually do not believe this else we would still be diving Model Ts.


In some ways, I think if we were driving Model T's, the world would be a better place.

In fact I like horses. A lot.
Bonus rolls got me most of my gear,...

The only time I WTF'ed was when my 2H dropped (I already had it) and the bonus roll got me the same 2H drop.

If I was a warrior, that wouldn't be so bad.

But, no complaints for bonus rolls on my end.
03/02/2014 11:01 AMPosted by Solaru
03/02/2014 08:02 AMPosted by Ashendal
Don't change what's not broke

Thank god people actually do not believe this else we would still be diving Model Ts.


There's a difference. New things are good if it doesn't totally ruin what was being done in the first place. A new car doesn't completely replace the old car with a bike does it? Same principle. If you move forward with cars you don't get out of the car and jump on the bike and claim it's an "improvement".
I cam back like a month ago after stopping in Wotlk, and my first monthly fee was like a day ago I think... I made a new account, leveled 1-90 with no heirlooms or XP boosts, and I even stuck around doing quests in old zones because I want lore master eventually, so I have all of Eastern Kingdoms done now, and most of Outlands...

Now all of that being said, with the maybe 2-3 weeks of doing LFR, I almost have all the gear I'll need to tank Normal or Heroic even after one more week of raiding... I have never used Valor or whatever to buy gear outside of the first couple pieces just to get my iLevel high enough to do the first raid via LFR.

So I ask now, who the hell is using Valor to buy gear these days instead of just upgrading gear they got recently?
03/02/2014 11:49 AMPosted by Demagoguery
I cam back like a month ago after stopping in Wotlk, and my first monthly fee was like a day ago I think... I made a new account, leveled 1-90 with no heirlooms or XP boosts, and I even stuck around doing quests in old zones because I want lore master eventually, so I have all of Eastern Kingdoms done now, and most of Outlands...

Now all of that being said, with the maybe 2-3 weeks of doing LFR, I almost have all the gear I'll need to tank Normal or Heroic even after one more week of raiding... I have never used Valor or whatever to buy gear outside of the first couple pieces just to get my iLevel high enough to do the first raid via LFR.

So I ask now, who the hell is using Valor to buy gear these days instead of just upgrading gear they got recently?


Me? That was the whole point of the thread? Not all of us are as lucky as you on loot. Especially not on multiple characters.
03/02/2014 11:50 AMPosted by Ashendal
03/02/2014 11:49 AMPosted by Demagoguery
I cam back like a month ago after stopping in Wotlk, and my first monthly fee was like a day ago I think... I made a new account, leveled 1-90 with no heirlooms or XP boosts, and I even stuck around doing quests in old zones because I want lore master eventually, so I have all of Eastern Kingdoms done now, and most of Outlands...

Now all of that being said, with the maybe 2-3 weeks of doing LFR, I almost have all the gear I'll need to tank Normal or Heroic even after one more week of raiding... I have never used Valor or whatever to buy gear outside of the first couple pieces just to get my iLevel high enough to do the first raid via LFR.

So I ask now, who the hell is using Valor to buy gear these days instead of just upgrading gear they got recently?


Me? That was the whole point of the thread? Not all of us are as lucky as you on loot. Especially not on multiple characters.


When discussing a revamped and different system it is best to not apply a certain change to the soon to be outdated and replaced system but rather to the new system as a whole. They are improving coin rolls which I am pretty sure you don't care about at all because you conveniently left that out of your opening post, nice editing by the way to fit your argument.
03/02/2014 11:55 AMPosted by Sayne


When discussing a revamped and different system it is best to not apply a certain change to the soon to be outdated and replaced system but rather to the new system as a whole. They are improving coin rolls which I am pretty sure you don't care about at all because you conveniently left that out of your opening post, nice editing by the way to fit your argument.


No, I made it apparent that RNG is flawed. ALL of RNG which includes the so called "changes" to coin rolls. When you rely entirely on one aspect for an entire part of the game it is doomed to failure and RNG was horrible at the start.

Unless it's completely rebuilt with a brand new engine to handle all new aspects for RNG then it's not going to be any different from what they have now unless we get to pick our loot. Then it's not RNG.
03/02/2014 11:40 AMPosted by Nymph
In fact I like horses. A lot.

Have you ever thought of moving to Lancaster County Pa?

03/02/2014 11:46 AMPosted by Ashendal
There's a difference. New things are good if it doesn't totally ruin what was being done in the first place. A new car doesn't completely replace the old car with a bike does it? Same principle. If you move forward with cars you don't get out of the car and jump on the bike and claim it's an "improvement".
The thing is, there is no difference. Innovation needs to happen. You can't go from the Model T to the Toyota Camey without having a Yugo or 2.

Will the new changes be better? We will have to wait and see but saying things are :"good enough" is not a reason not to make them better.
03/02/2014 11:50 AMPosted by Ashendal
03/02/2014 11:49 AMPosted by Demagoguery
I cam back like a month ago after stopping in Wotlk, and my first monthly fee was like a day ago I think... I made a new account, leveled 1-90 with no heirlooms or XP boosts, and I even stuck around doing quests in old zones because I want lore master eventually, so I have all of Eastern Kingdoms done now, and most of Outlands...

Now all of that being said, with the maybe 2-3 weeks of doing LFR, I almost have all the gear I'll need to tank Normal or Heroic even after one more week of raiding... I have never used Valor or whatever to buy gear outside of the first couple pieces just to get my iLevel high enough to do the first raid via LFR.

So I ask now, who the hell is using Valor to buy gear these days instead of just upgrading gear they got recently?


Me? That was the whole point of the thread? Not all of us are as lucky as you on loot. Especially not on multiple characters.
I'm by no means lucky on loot, I got maybe one piece of relevant look ever run or two. You need to do like 11 Raids to get valor capped, I do maybe 6-8 a week and get the rest of the valor doing other stuff in between. In those 5 raids a week, assuming you get one piece every other raid, you're telling me you can't get most of the gear you need in like a months time, being 10 pieces of gear over the course of 20 raids?

Dude, I didn't even know that the Warforge things existed, until yesterday when I picked up my first batch... I can't even use them until next week and I have no idea how they work.
Justice points have been useless since the start of MoP, rewarding blue gear that was worse than what dropped in heroics.

Valor gear was locked behind rep for the first tier, pissing everyone off about having to do dailies. Then it was locked behind a raid reputation. Unless you get new gear every week, it's pretty useless currently as an item upgrade currency. Both currencies are just not doing what they should.

Having all the agility leather that my rogue guildie doesn't want, be transformable into intellect leather, should go a long way into helping myself and everyone progress. That is assuming the items will work that way.
03/02/2014 10:43 AMPosted by Egram
03/02/2014 10:36 AMPosted by Indyana
Badges meant a player could stop progressing as a player (skill-wise) but still progress in gear power via outdated and non-challenging content. The moment Badges were introduced was a turning point in WOW. The negative effect of badges has been discussed since then and it seems obvious the devs know they made a mistake...hence no more Valor gear in SOO as an example.


You madam have made the most valid point on the thread. I think this is the mentality we as player a player base need embrace.


Yes and no. I know of plenty of players who maybe slid by with badge gear because they would not have gotten any from raiding because they weren't good enough to raid. However, there are also other folks with time constraints that did not raid but could have done well, who also got the same badge gear. So it works both ways.

It doesn't really matter though what player xxx is wearing though. How does it affect you if he has badge gear? So he stops skill-wise and gets better gear and then...? What? How does this affect you?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum