Simplifying currency? That's the grand plan?

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Just another way to blatantly nerf progression to milk more monthly subscriptions.
03/02/2014 01:45 PMPosted by Grinresh
03/02/2014 12:47 PMPosted by Annoroth
Came in thinking I could get currency for stripping. I'm disappointed.

I figured this topic was about how much money you could make dancing on mailboxes.


Title is misleading.

0/10
03/02/2014 01:29 PMPosted by Indyana
...

Yes and no. I know of plenty of players who maybe slid by with badge gear because they would not have gotten any from raiding because they weren't good enough to raid. However, there are also other folks with time constraints that did not raid but could have done well, who also got the same badge gear. So it works both ways.

It doesn't really matter though what player xxx is wearing though. How does it affect you if he has badge gear? So he stops skill-wise and gets better gear and then...? What? How does this affect you?


I'm tired of people posting that it doesn't matter what another player is wearing. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the psychology of what differentiates MMO's from single player games. It does matter in an MMO because it effects the game as a whole. I don't care what someone does in a single player game. They can use cheat codes for all I care. An MMO is a game where your gameplay impacts all the people around you.

There's a lot of current discussion going on about the effect of the "everyone wins" philosophy plaguing our society as a whole and a lot of great blogs on how that philosophy has trickled into game design and why it's bad. WoW is a great example of taking that philosophy to the extreme to the point where we'll never see world events like the Scourge Invasion. You can bet that whatever the pre-WoD event is it will be locked behind a solo Scenario of some kind so no one gets their panties ruffled.


Blizz does what is best for business. This might surprise you, but I actually liked the BC model of raiding and I had no issues whatsoever with not seeing any of that raid content. However, it wasn't conducive to business so it was scrapped. What Blizz found out was that token gear was conducive to business, so they kept with that model. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I'm just saying that what someone else wears shouldn't affect you as a player.

I understand your concern with "everyone wins" model, but this is a videogame, not real life, not sports, not physical education. It is a videogame that people of all ages and skill levels play. Thus, to get the most people to play and enjoy the product, Blizz allows everyone to participate, get gear and see content. This in turn lets people of all skill levels wear nice gear. It doesn't effect you at all.

You have the mentality of the top 5 percent of the raiders that used to play EQ. They screamed to make the raids harder, punish people more, have more haves and have nots, They were the elitists. Guess what? They lost and WoW is proof of that.

I disagree with your assessment of the Scourge Invasion. We don't see events like that because they disrupt (at least that one did) game play immensely. I agree with you, it was pretty cool, but in the end, too many people complained. I don't see what that has to do with the "everyone wins" mentality you were complaining about. I see it as more of "this sucks cause I can't play" mentality.
The main problem I see with removing valour/justice is that once everyone gears up in heroics there is absolutely no reason to do them anymore, the qeue times will get horrendous. Alot of people do them every week for valour cap but without that barely anyone will do them after a month or so into the expac. Talk about killing the heroic dungeons......
03/02/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Magnata
03/02/2014 01:29 PMPosted by Indyana
I'm tired of people posting that it doesn't matter what another player is wearing. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the psychology of what differentiates MMO's from single player games.


sick and twisted brain broke psychology.


However you want to spin it the social aspect of MMO's is what keeps people playing. It's certainly not the graphics or gameplay since there are plenty of single player RPG's that are better in both regards.

The tricky part is a number of the things that made MMO's so popular are also anathema to many people. Social pressure and forced grouping/socialization being two of the biggest offenders to many. Yet those two aspects also fuel the number of players available to run content and players regularly logging on are the lifeblood of MMO's.

I think it's a fascinating subject. I won't disagree that there's definitely something off about the psychology behind MMO's but I'll reiterate that anyone who says it doesn't matter what another player has in terms of gear is very naive.
03/02/2014 02:02 PMPosted by Indyana
03/02/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Magnata
...

sick and twisted brain broke psychology.


However you want to spin it the social aspect of MMO's is what keeps people playing. It's certainly not the graphics or gameplay since there are plenty of single player RPG's that are better in both regards.

The tricky part is a number of the things that made MMO's so popular are also anathema to many people. Social pressure and forced grouping/socialization being two of the biggest offenders to many. Yet those two aspects also fuel the number of players available to run content and players regularly logging on are the lifeblood of MMO's.

I think it's a fascinating subject. I won't disagree that there's definitely something off about the psychology behind MMO's but I'll reiterate that anyone who says it doesn't matter what another player has in terms of gear is very naive.


To refine the statement a bit more; it doesn't matter what gear you have unless you're playing with other people in an environment that requires that gear.

Though that's false as well. I don't absolutely need gear as good as what I have on this character to do what I do each day (old rep grinds, dailies, crafting) but it does help with those things. And I am social in-game, though not to the point where I run stuff without my guild.
03/02/2014 02:00 PMPosted by Silversorrow
The main problem I see with removing valour/justice is that once everyone gears up in heroics there is absolutely no reason to do them anymore, the qeue times will get horrendous. Alot of people do them every week for valour cap but without that barely anyone will do them after a month or so into the expac. Talk about killing the heroic dungeons......

It depends. I mean, I don't think WoD will grant us free bonus rolls every week. Blizz could merge the VP system and the charms of good fortune system into a single currency, which will require us to grind for to buy our bonus rolls.

That's just my speculation though.
So if I'm reading this right, there getting rid of Valor & Justice points for a full random roll system. But there taking away on your bonus roll the full random by getting the roll system to check your gear so you don't get an item you already have.

Sounds not to bad of a system. Was getting sick of receiving the same item or an item I already had when using bonus rolls.
......

I understand your concern with "everyone wins" model, but this is a videogame, not real life, not sports, not physical education. It is a videogame that people of all ages and skill levels play. Thus, to get the most people to play and enjoy the product, Blizz allows everyone to participate, get gear and see content. This in turn lets people of all skill levels wear nice gear. It doesn't effect you at all.

You have the mentality of the top 5 percent of the raiders that used to play EQ. They screamed to make the raids harder, punish people more, have more haves and have nots, They were the elitists. Guess what? They lost and WoW is proof of that.


I think you missed the point of what I was originally saying. I have no issue with a player getting gear on par with the content they're running. I'm not an anti LFR elitist by any means. I haven't done any serious Raiding this entire x-pac.

My issue is allowing players to get power upgrades beyond the level of content they happen to be in and it seems Blizzard agrees to some extent due to the removal of Valor gear vendors this Tier. The psychology of players is they'll migrate to whatever content they can complete that offers the best rewards. That's why so many people ran Kara as opposed to T4 Raids since the Badge gear was better and Kara was easier.

I contend that it's good for the game to dangle the carrot of better rewards via skill progression...that's it.

I disagree with your assessment of the Scourge Invasion. We don't see events like that because they disrupt (at least that one did) game play immensely. I agree with you, it was pretty cool, but in the end, too many people complained. I don't see what that has to do with the "everyone wins" mentality you were complaining about. I see it as more of "this sucks cause I can't play" mentality.


I mentioned the Invasion because WOW has become a dead, static world since then and a lot of that is tied to the same philosophy as "everyone wins" IMO. Instead of a dynamic world we now have all content that impacts the state of the game locked behind instanced scenarios. It goes back to the same argument about how another player's gear impacts me or not. This isn't a single player game and having random world events that ARE disruptive would be a good thing in the long run.

TBH I'm shocked and happy that Blizzard actually wrecked the Vale for everyone instead of having it phased.
03/02/2014 08:18 AMPosted by Grug
They don't have to scrap RNG on loot drops altogether, they need to make it smarter. If you already have an item on the loot table and it is unique, it shouldn't drop for you again. If you have two of an item (like weapons), those shouldn't drop for you. You might not get something, but at least what you do get you can use. To put it another way, if something drops for you, you should be able to use it. (Barring lower level same slot drops, that can't be helped, but if you keep the item then next time it shouldn't be on the loot list)


I mean, they could do that, but they'd want to maintain the average pace of gearing up, so they'd likely also nerf drop rates a little bit. So the end result would be gear at the same pace, but with less vendor fodder/enchanting mats on the side.
I kinda agree with OP. The Bonus Roll system is a poor substitute for the Valor system. Bonus Rolls don't guarantee anything. Even if you use your coins in a clever way, you can still be rewarded with the wrong item.
03/02/2014 02:58 PMPosted by Zythor
Simplify Does Not Mean Remove.


Name 3 times when blizzard has been ambiguous about a topic that it turned out better than what we already had. When they are cryptic it usually means that they are either going to nerf it to death or change it to no longer be recognizable.

At this point they may not "remove" them but with how that interview went they don't like the points and when they don't like something, *coughs*flying*coughs*, they find every possible way to make it either useless or so time consuming that it's as if it got removed.
Headline of that article is ridiculously misleading. Not surprising in the least, video game publications give less than a squirt about integrity...and they've got more than enough nerds in the legions to believe everything they say.
03/02/2014 03:07 PMPosted by Ashendal
03/02/2014 02:58 PMPosted by Zythor
Simplify Does Not Mean Remove.


Name 3 times when blizzard has been ambiguous about a topic that it turned out better than what we already had. When they are cryptic it usually means that they are either going to nerf it to death or change it to no longer be recognizable.

At this point they may not "remove" them but with how that interview went they don't like the points and when they don't like something, *coughs*flying*coughs*, they find every possible way to make it either useless or so time consuming that it's as if it got removed.


I'd say you can just look at the current Tier for how things will shake out. There's still Valor but it's limited to upgrades. It's likely we'll see more of the same in WoD.
03/02/2014 03:07 PMPosted by Ashendal
Name 3 times when blizzard has been ambiguous about a topic that it turned out better than what we already had.

1. "trimming the fat" from our talent trees
2. "bring the player, not the class" philosophy
3. "inclusive" end-game content
03/02/2014 08:11 AMPosted by Nymph
RNG doesn't make PvE "harder"


True. Back In cataclysm I wanted the Creche of the Final Dragon from Ultraxion. Between LFR, normal, and heroic I had 39 kills. I never saw it drop until I ran Ds last week. On my 40 Ultraxion kill I saw it drop on my level 90, and I didn't even win it. RNG is boring and frustrating IMo
This sounds like just another case where blizzard is swinging the baseball bat way to hard. I get that the Cata system of VP and JP was not the greatest but going back to a pure RNG system is worse and the reason we got the raid currency system to begin with.
I like this change. Now, if we can get to a single system that rewards you whether you PVP or PVE we will truly be at a play as you like crossroads.

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