Guild Experience Change

General Discussion
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12/07/2010 4:00 PMPosted by Sax
12/07/2010 3:36 PMPosted by Norkol


Real ID on the forums was the first and last time this ever happened.

Real ID on the forums was reverted, thank god.

I'm really hoping more people chip their thoughts here. Would be nice to see the devs reconsider, clearly we aren't thrilled.


The difference about Real ID was that it also made mainstream news.


Irrelevant. I was simply pointing out to the poster I quoted that the community has agreed on something in the past, and the change was reverted.

When a very large majority of their players agree that this isn't a good change, it simply would not be smart to just write it off and let us complain. I can count on my fingers the number of people who approve in this thread, while I would run out of digits of people who don't approve long before reaching this page.

This was not handled well, and it is not a widely accepted change.
12/07/2010 4:04 PMPosted by Collected
12/07/2010 4:00 PMPosted by Jabouty

It is my sincere hope that this subject is re-evaluated and revised soon.


... It does concern me tho that this has happened. Not what you want to be thinking about on day 1 of a new expansion.
Agreed
12/07/2010 4:07 PMPosted by Jabouty
12/07/2010 4:04 PMPosted by Collected
[quote="13055745244"]
It is my sincere hope that this subject is re-evaluated and revised soon.


... It does concern me tho that this has happened. Not what you want to be thinking about on day 1 of a new expansion.
Agreed[/quote]

Also agreed. Not a good way to start the biggest and most badass expansion...
This is an incredibly frustrating change. We had allot of guys (myself excluded) that busted there proverbial booties over the last few days. We even had the realm first tailor whos been up since I went to bed last night.
Then I log in on my lunch break just in time to watch my guild go from lvl 2.5 to lvl 1. Seriously?

If your game is going to be based off the carrot on a stick mentality, and the second someone reaches the carrot you beat them with the stick, then im going to take my ball and go home!

AND I want my freaking moose!
It also occurs to me that this is just one other way for Blizzard to punish organized guilds that aren't necessarily raiding guilds. With the inability for guilds that perhaps favor PvP or non-raid content to be competitive for any server firsts. Since the level 25 one is simply whomever has the most people online earliest the last day thats hardly a Feat, where as a guild coordinating and doing BGs and knocking out achievements would have been quite a Feat.

Now the only guild feats, like before, are raid ones and if you don't raid you don't matter.

I also can't help but wonder WHY the guild exp gains are so high vs the cap being so low ... it makes it so you don't actually ever have to see other guild members to level the guild. Pretty dumb to be quite honest with you.
I like this change. Because it extends the guild leveling experience so it's not a race like everything else, as well as also makes it so the achievements don't double-dip and give both experience and perks.

As a random side note to all you people complaining the sky is falling and this is similar to real-id, realm-firsts aren't really developable content as they only occur once and after that there's no point. In turn, none of you are going to care about this change in a little bit as your desire to obtain guild level 25 realm first will be realized as relatively pointless.

Have fun raging!
I am not able to gain experience or rep with my guild when I am doing dailies on my other characters. Is this going to happen with all my alts when I am leveling them up and doing normal quests?
12/07/2010 4:19 PMPosted by Jowls
I like this change. Because it extends the guild leveling experience so it's not a race like everything else, as well as also makes it so the achievements don't double-dip and give both experience and perks.

As a random side note to all you people complaining the sky is falling and this is similar to real-id, realm-firsts aren't really developable content as they only occur once and after that there's no point. In turn, none of you are going to care about this change in a little bit as your desire to obtain guild level 25 realm first will be realized as relatively pointless.

Have fun raging!


I think if you had bother to read the psts you'd realise its not about "Oh noez i cant get realm first 25" But more about "What the point of guild achieves then?" They are basically vanity points you get as a guild instead of on your own.

12/07/2010 4:19 PMPosted by Jowls
I like this change. Because it extends the guild leveling experience so it's not a race like everything else, as well as also makes it so the achievements don't double-dip and give both experience and perks.

As a random side note to all you people complaining the sky is falling and this is similar to real-id, realm-firsts aren't really developable content as they only occur once and after that there's no point. In turn, none of you are going to care about this change in a little bit as your desire to obtain guild level 25 realm first will be realized as relatively pointless.

Have fun raging!


My mention of Real ID on the forums has nothing to do with guild leveling, aside from the simple fact that it was a widely accepted failure, as this is.

Many of the guilds complaining here are smaller, casual guilds that had no intention or expectation of getting to realm first 25 guild.

You clearly aren't reading the posts. If you're going to agree, at least post intelligently like the rest of us. We wanted these achievements to give guild experience because it is an incentive to work as a guild and bond.
I don't agree with this "solution". This is going to make the guild advancement system a lot less interesting. Before this change, there was a reason to work on the achievements. Now they are nothing but useless points again.
Reconsider this change would you?

If you feel the exp given from the achievements is too great, then lower the exp gain, but being able to complete achievements to help level the guild was an interesting mechanic and set extra goals for the guild as a whole.

With that gone, a lot of the guild achievements feel pretty damn pointless and really aren't worth bothering with. The guild's achievement score just doesn't feel as brag worthy as a character's own achievement score.
I agree with many points of view on this matter, but the most of all is this.......... How could blizzard not foresee this "imbalance" that Netaera spoke of in this post during beta and fix it before they pissed off so many people after the Launch? Would have been nice for these people not to have wasted their time and money don't you think? Blizzard just does not seem to get it........perhaps setting up some sort of voting system on sudden changes to the game like this just might help your customer retention level. All I know is this......you have made many people mad by doing this and It would not sup prize me to see many people leave because of it. On the other hand, some players may just keep at it regardless of the unwise decisions made by the makers of the game. Only time will tell......
I'm very confused. So the guild gaining xp by individuals soloing their quests stays but the guild gaining xp by actually doing activities as a guild group is removed? This seems very counter to the entire philosophy of having a guild leveling system.

I was pretty excited to knock out some of the achievements - I had two weeks of these planned out for us to work on. I can't believe there is no point to it and we are stuck with a super low cap reached by solo questing. I'm so bummed right now after our guild de-leveled and find it hard to get into playing which is a shame because I was having a blast earlier.

Where is the sense of achievement in any of this? I don't care if a power guild gets 25 in a week, I personally want to feel a sense of accomplishment when we reach the next level, when we unlock the next reward. Right now I feel as though we are simply being handed a portion of a level each day for doing nothing special. Why even have guild levels if it's going to be like this?

I think if anything you should reduce the guild xp gained through solo questing, raise the stupidly low cap per day, and keep the xp gained by guild achievements or reduce it if you must but don't zero it out. That just cheapens the entire system.
I am now completely fine with you changing your mind and deciding to take away Guild XP from achievements. However, I would ask that you please do not take away the xp that we worked hard to get. Many of us held off on leveling to 85 so that we could help our guild get various achievements. Please reinstate what we earned prior to this change. I think it would go a long ways towards appeasing the player base.
Scrap it. Just please scrap this system. It isn't serving any of the originally-stated design goals, it's just disrupting play. If you manage to get something together that's good, come back with that later. The longer you leave this around on servers, the more perks guilds are going to get and the harder it's going to be to fix it when the time comes. I know that you guys can make a great system, but you ran out of time. That's okay, just pull it and put it back in when it works.
While we're talking about fixes, I'm inclined to disagree with lowering achievement exp reward. After the day of easy achievements, a lot of achievements are hard. They should give a decent bit of exp, and I think it should be independent of the cap, so the reward for mining 9 billion items, or having a guild team clear every Cata heroic isn't completely neglibible. If they want guilds to level slower, increase the total amount of experience required to level.
What you have done here Blizzard is UNETHICAL in my opinion and completely unfair. You have given some players a lead over others simply based on when they happened to be online. Those players who were on between 12:01 December 7th and 2pm December 8th got the 5% guild leveling bonus or more. If you really were interested in being fair you would have reset everyone back to level 80 and let us start again. Better yet, you really should have solved this problem BEFORE the game started and not reward large guilds and their players for being in the right place at the right time. As for realm 1st and all the other achievements related to leveling speed, to me they are moot now and should be removed.

Between this travesty and the 10 minute log in discrepancy over where or not one got experience for dailies, I'm thoroughly disgusted. I looked forward to this week with much anticipation. I have never been more disappointed.
So 5 months for 25(620k exp for each of 10 people each day, that seem fun?), achievements that don't give us anything, and less then 12 hours to get to 85(maybe you should of dumped some of your guild exp grind in to leveling). Also seems like your beta is a joke, couldn't foresee the min/maxers? Perhaps if you sat down and looked at what you were offering and thought of each possible exploit you would of balanced this problem instead of making it worse by making it a senseless grind.

Can I get my money back?
I don't... I honestly don't know what to say.

I don't know what I can say other than to add my voice to the numerous that have already posted and hope that we are heard.

Before Cata dropped, we, as a guild, spent many hours of planning into working towards realm first guild level 25. Almost every member of the guild was on board to make this happen. We were excited. Casual members who don't raid were excited.

This excitement went beyond the chance to experience the new content that was coming out. We were thrilled because, for the first time, there was a tangible benefit to doing things as a group in an organized fashion that extended to all of our members and not just a select few. And best of all, everyone could participate in making it happen.

We reached the guild daily exp cap in an hour. AN HOUR! (Yes, it feels low and could be adjusted with the amount of gxp needed to level.) We didn't even have that many members on (20-30 when a good night has 50) for the midnight launch nor were we shooting for it that quickly. So in order for us to get a little boost, we attacked the guild achievements with fervor.

We read in advance how the EU guilds were reset. But it honestly didn't cross our minds that it was because of guild achievements. We thought the gxp daily cap bugged out. After all, we thought, how could Blizz remove one of the most exciting features of the new game?

I'll admit. we were surprised at the rate at which we were able to level. I remember there was a 2.5 glvl guild posted earlier. We made glvl 3.8 before the "cataclysm" on achievement points dropped. (Without warning we "achieved" glvl 1.) By our tally, we made an additional 250 gxp every 10 points of achievement score plus a ridiculously high amount (almost 5-6 million) for every meta achieve (Classic Dungeonmaster and other achieves earned through many smaller ones).

This was -exciting-. This was one of the best things about the new expansion. We, as a guild, were cooperating at all levels to help one another out and many people sacrificed their first few hours in Cata to assist with dungeon runs and other achievements because we knew it was worthwhile and were seeing the benefits.

And now what are we left with after a collective effort? After the hundreds of man-hours on reputations ground up in advance? After the thousands of gold and time spent planning even to gain legendary weapons? After the sheer rush of actually accomplishing what we were setting out to accomplish? A glvl 1 that will proc glvl 25 at the same time as every other guild in the world.

So nerf it! A lot of fair suggestions have been made. Nerf it 80%. Get rid of the (frankly ridiculous) bonus gxp for the meta achieves and just base it on points. Grab that nerf bat and start whacking and adjusting until the gxp is in line with your ideal... But don't take it away. Don't make it a countdown timer. Don't remove the carrot that made every member of larger (and smaller) guilds feel like they were contributing in a tangible way.

I can't. I can't stress that last paragraph enough. I can't shout loud enough. I can only hope as I have said so many times and has been said so many times in the mere hours since this was posted, how much this mattered to the enjoyment of your game.

And I'm not certain I can convey in nice terms how angry this has made many of your customers. Small guilds and large guilds alike have chimed in how achievements were goals for them. We don't need or want bragging rights. We just wanted to do something to make being in the guild worth that much more.

Please Blizzard. Revisit this decision.

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