Link inside to 5.0 Assassination Guide (PvE)

Rogue
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01/06/2011 7:05 PMPosted by Hubrus
im curious as to why skinning isn't listed for professions since the constant 1% crit would theoretically outDPS the haste buff from herbalism.
Thanks, I did miss that. I could be wrong though but I think master of anatomy is just 80 critical strike rating, not 1%, which is like 72EP. I'll add it here in a moment though.
1097.4: Mask of Vines (2200 justice points).


How did you calculate that? I want to calculate my current helm Shocktrooper Hood.
If I gemmed that helm, Will I get more EP from the item?
What do you mean with a whole number on my Hit Cap? I can't find a whole number. I have something like Hit Rating 344 (+13.11% hit chance). How is this translated. Everything is in percentages. I am confused.
Just a little note for editing maybe, but I noticed on your BiS list, that the Boots section is not in order from highest to lowest EP.

Great post/resource! Thanks for all the work.
1097.4: Mask of Vines (2200 justice points).


How did you calculate that? I want to calculate my current helm Shocktrooper Hood.
If I gemmed that helm, Will I get more EP from the item?
Damn, I double-checked both those helms by hand and apparently I have Mask of Vines listed incorrectly. Going to go back through the list and check everything, but here's the answer to your immediate question:

1251.0: Mask of Vines (including the meta).
1141.8: Shocktrooper Hood.

The way these numbers are calculated is just by multiplying their stats by their EP value. For example, the Shocktrooper Hood has 268 agility, so you multiply 268 by 2.6 (the EP value of agility), to get 696.8. After you do that for all the different stats and allow for reforging (and gems, if there are any), you get a final number that you can compare between different pieces. The kicker here really is the meta slot, that adds 76.8 to the Mask of Vines.

01/07/2011 8:44 AMPosted by Unmercy
What do you mean with a whole number on my Hit Cap? I can't find a whole number. I have something like Hit Rating 344 (+13.11% hit chance). How is this translated. Everything is in percentages. I am confused.
The number is how much hit rating you need to be capped. Spell hit and melee hit are calculated differently, so you'll get something like 15.1% melee hit when you're spell hit capped (17% spell hit, or 1332 rating). The 15.1% might be off a bit, from memory that's about what you're left with.

01/07/2011 8:57 AMPosted by Autoriot
Just a little note for editing maybe, but I noticed on your BiS list, that the Boots section is not in order from highest to lowest EP.

Great post/resource! Thanks for all the work.
Thanks!
ALRIGHT. The gear list is comprehensively updated and all the spot-checks I did by hand checked out perfectly. For some reason agility socket bonuses were being ignored, but it's all good now and everything should be completely reliable based on the EP values supplied by EJ. I'm also using this list for reference myself as well, so if any bugs did happen to slip through I'll keep an eye open for them.

Unfortunately I had to remove heroic raiding items from the list due to the character limit though. :(
Excellent info! Thanks for the post. (and hooray, blizz finally put in sticky functionality)
So...I have MH: Steelbender's Masterpiece (H) and OH: Barim's Main Gauche.

I also have the ilevel 359 Viscious Gladiator's Shanker. If I can stay over hit cap, would it be worthwhile to switch out Steelbender's for the Viscious Shanker, and once I acquire it, the Viscious Glad's Shiv for Barim's?

Or are the PvP weps to be used just for PVP?

I always feel silly going into a raid with PVP gear on.

Edit: If you feel like it, I'd let you look at my current PVE set and tell me what I should be wearing from which heroics/factions before I head into raids proper on this character :p
So...I have MH: Steelbender's Masterpiece (H) and OH: Barim's Main Gauche.

I also have the ilevel 359 Viscious Gladiator's Shanker. If I can stay over hit cap, would it be worthwhile to switch out Steelbender's for the Viscious Shanker, and once I acquire it, the Viscious Glad's Shiv for Barim's?

Or are the PvP weps to be used just for PVP?

I always feel silly going into a raid with PVP gear on.
This is what I got using the generic EP values on EJ:

Mainhand:

Offhand:

There are also better blue-quality offhands available: Throat Slasher (972.8) and Quicksilver Blade (976.4). The ilvl359 PvP dagger is decent for the mainhand though, until you can get a PvE-equivalent: Organic Lifeform Inverter (2169.5).
01/10/2011 2:15 PMPosted by Picklejar
Edit: If you feel like it, I'd let you look at my current PVE set and tell me what I should be wearing from which heroics/factions before I head into raids proper on this character :p
I think this should be generally covered here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1658707015?page=1#16

If you have any specific questions though feel free to ask.
Is hurricane mh avalanche offhand seriously any good? Avalanche seems to be doing between .7 and 1% of damage. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade over berserking... I think I read somewhere that it supposedly scaled with assassination's mastery but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. I'd say avalanche on the off hand is completely irrelevant right now, mattering even less than racial bonus >< Unless there's some weird thing going on where hurricane procs off of avalanche procs or something like that that I don't know about, I don't understand how it could possibly be viewed as a worthwhile enchant option.
Hi, I read your guide and like how explanatory it is. EJ posts tend to assume a certain amount of knowledge from its readers, which can be hard to decipher for someone learning.

With that being said, I have some questions concerning your rotation, as I didn't quite understand it. Please note, that I am currently leveling my rogue (lvl 72), but I enjoy learning and preparing to play my role correctly along the way as much as I can. Obviously my experience is low, however, but I talk to my brother who is currently gearing his 85 rogue about rotations as I play.

I noticed you listed two rotations but I did not see and exact explanation as to why there were two and/or why you would use on over the other. Considering the opener is either Garrote or Mutilation, I assume the choice here is based on whether or not you can open with Garrote or not due to positioning/timing.

I have noticed some talk over on the EJ forums about openers. They are discussion Garrote straight into a 1pt Rupture. What follows depends on Ruthlessness procs. I am wondering if you have messed around with this and/or have any comments on it.

If you don't know what I'm referring to, I believe the discussion starts around page 9 by a poster named Seikei. There may have been some discussion beforehand about openers as well, but I have not taken the time to read the whole EJ thread yet. I told my brother about this, and he attempted it, noting that it, at least for his brief experience with it, gave him a bit of a DPS boost at the beginning of the fight.
Is hurricane mh avalanche offhand seriously any good? Avalanche seems to be doing between .7 and 1% of damage. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade over berserking... I think I read somewhere that it supposedly scaled with assassination's mastery but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. I'd say avalanche on the off hand is completely irrelevant right now, mattering even less than racial bonus >< Unless there's some weird thing going on where hurricane procs off of avalanche procs or something like that that I don't know about, I don't understand how it could possibly be viewed as a worthwhile enchant option.

Wanted to quote Aldriana directly for this one, with respect to weapon enchants:
Well, what are you expecting? its not like weapon enchants are half your damage or anything. Double Hurricane in full BIS T11 is something like 1.7% of your damage, so its entirely possible for double Avalanche to be entirely worth using and still under 2% of your total damage.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110134-assassination_guide_cata/p2/#post1815056
Q: What weapon enchant should I use?
A: Landslide, and by a pretty significant margin.

Q: What if I can't afford that?
A: Hurricane.

Q: What about Avalanche?
A: Its reasonably competitive on your OH as Assassination. Hurricane is clearly better otherwise, particularly for Combat.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110016-cataclysm_raiding_faq_updated_1_7_11_a/
01/10/2011 11:32 PMPosted by Darte
Hi, I read your guide and like how explanatory it is. EJ posts tend to assume a certain amount of knowledge from its readers, which can be hard to decipher for someone learning.
Thanks!

01/10/2011 11:32 PMPosted by Darte
I noticed you listed two rotations but I did not see and exact explanation as to why there were two and/or why you would use on over the other. Considering the opener is either Garrote or Mutilation, I assume the choice here is based on whether or not you can open with Garrote or not due to positioning/timing.
Correct.

01/10/2011 11:32 PMPosted by Darte
I have noticed some talk over on the EJ forums about openers. They are discussion Garrote straight into a 1pt Rupture. What follows depends on Ruthlessness procs. I am wondering if you have messed around with this and/or have any comments on it.

If you don't know what I'm referring to, I believe the discussion starts around page 9 by a poster named Seikei. There may have been some discussion beforehand about openers as well, but I have not taken the time to read the whole EJ thread yet. I told my brother about this, and he attempted it, noting that it, at least for his brief experience with it, gave him a bit of a DPS boost at the beginning of the fight.
It looks like the jury is still out; Aldriana pointed out that what Seikei is saying might be absolutely true, but he was ignoring too many factors to be sure. So I'd say it's up to personal preference until someone has time to accurately simulate it, the only thing that jumped out at me is it's rather heavily reliant on ruthlessness procs to run smoothly, but it might be much more intuitive in practice.

Aldriana:
To be clear: I have no idea whether either of these apply to Assassination cycles right now. Your math is omitting too many factors (such as: the damage done by each move) for me to trust it as an effective guideline of what's better. Its completely plausible to me that small ruptures is a viable approach - but I just don't know. The point is that all considerations of this sort require looking at all tradeoffs involved - not just how much damage you gain (or lose) by doing a particular move, but also what other uses the resources could be put towards. And that can be somewhat trickier to figure out, which is among the reasons I haven't done it yet.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110134-assassination_guide_cata/p10/#post1833808

Possible rotations:

Behind Target: Garrote > SnD > Mut 4-5cps > Envenom > Mut 4-5cps > Rupture.
Otherwise: Mutilate > SnD > Mut 4-5cps > Rupture > Mut 4-5cps > Envenom.
Proposed: Garrote > Ruth/Mut > Rupture > Ruth/Mut > SnD > Mut 4-5cps > Envenom.

Ruth = ruthlessness proc.

There was another discussion about whether or not lower CP ruptures might not be superior as well, since the base damage of rupture is minimal compared to getting VW procs. I don't think that discussion has been adequately concluded yet either, however.

// edit //

Added Destructive Shadowspirit Diamond to the meta list as EJ says this is the best current meta, and updated the rotations post as per this post and for general readability (it was getting cluttered).
Well, he clarified his opener as this:

"garrote > rupture (+ ruth) > SND (mut no ruth > SND) > mut > mut > env"

They later go on to discuss using 1pt Ruptures throughout your whole rotation, rather than just the beginning, which I believe is what Adriana was addressing in that quote.
Rather noobish question, but what is the difference between backstab (at 35% or lower) compared to continuing to use mutilate? Frankly, I find backstab to be unreliable for me (it never seems to register that i'm behind the stupid enemy, seems to require being even closer than mutilate to use, that and moving fights while keeping track of my energy bar and combo points is rather annoying). In short, is backstab really that necessary?
Also in terms of reforging, should I change mastery and haste to hit till I hit the cap?
Have a quick question for you, you said expertise is very irrelevant to our playstyle so from the sounds of it we shouldnt have much as we get 80% energy back but then you said we should reforge into it. if that is the case should we be looking for have expertise rating at a certain rating or just get what can get up to with reforging? if we are looking for a certain rating do you know how much we should have?

12/23/2010 11:46 PMPosted by Verelyse
That’s it. Expertise is very irrelevant to our playstyle in Cataclysm because of several factors: NPCs cannot dodge when casting, so interrupts are not effected; you are refunded 80% energy if an attack is dodged, making the loss negligible; and the envenom buff is applied even if dodged.


12/23/2010 11:54 PMPosted by Verelyse
You should aim to reforge away as much white hit (hit over 1332 rating), critical strike rating, and expertise rating as you can, as these three stats will be the ones to net you the biggest gains. Items with haste and mastery rating are perfectly itemized and should not be reforged if avoidable.
Mainhand:
2035.4: Vicious Gladiator's Shanker (PvP).
1940.7: Steelbender's Masterpiece.

Offhand:
962.9: Vicious Gladiator's Shiv (PvP).
960.8: Barim's Main Gauche.


Okay.
Just to make absolutely 100% sure, and pardon my silliness, but you are saying that in order to maximize DPS I should use the Vicious Glad Shanker/Shiv over my Steelbender/Barim's...

Yes, or no? Circle one please! hehe....

And to tackle this question:

01/11/2011 3:17 PMPosted by Kaiserblaze
Rather noobish question, but what is the difference between backstab (at 35% or lower) compared to continuing to use mutilate?


You want to use backstab at 35% or lower because you /should/ have 2/2 in Murderous Intent. You will get 30 energy back every time you use backstab on the target below 35%, effectively reducing the cost of backstab to just 30 energy, as opposed to the (glyphed) 55 energy of mutilate, thus increasing your total damage output.

PS: This thread is absolutely invaluable. I have made my gear choices from this since I got my first piece of heroic gear. Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and actively answer questions!
01/11/2011 2:30 PMPosted by Darte
Well, he clarified his opener as this:

"garrote > rupture (+ ruth) > SND (mut no ruth > SND) > mut > mut > env"

They later go on to discuss using 1pt Ruptures throughout your whole rotation, rather than just the beginning, which I believe is what Adriana was addressing in that quote.
You're right, I misread it. Also goofed on the fact that I forgot garrote gives you a combo point... guess I shouldn't rush these things between classes. ^_^ I think I've corrected the rotations post to correct my error, thank you for the catch.

01/11/2011 3:17 PMPosted by Kaiserblaze
Rather noobish question, but what is the difference between backstab (at 35% or lower) compared to continuing to use mutilate? Frankly, I find backstab to be unreliable for me (it never seems to register that i'm behind the stupid enemy, seems to require being even closer than mutilate to use, that and moving fights while keeping track of my energy bar and combo points is rather annoying). In short, is backstab really that necessary?
Simply put, like Pickle said above, backstab becomes so cheap in terms of energy after murderous intent kicks in that it really is a noticeable DPS increase when used. It can take some getting used to, but after while it's second nature.
Also in terms of reforging, should I change mastery and haste to hit till I hit the cap?
If you can't hit cap by reforging less-valued stats, yes. It's worth that much more.

01/11/2011 4:02 PMPosted by Jetfire
Have a quick question for you, you said expertise is very irrelevant to our playstyle so from the sounds of it we shouldnt have much as we get 80% energy back but then you said we should reforge into it. if that is the case should we be looking for have expertise rating at a certain rating or just get what can get up to with reforging? if we are looking for a certain rating do you know how much we should have?

That’s it. Expertise is very irrelevant to our playstyle in Cataclysm because of several factors: NPCs cannot dodge when casting, so interrupts are not effected; you are refunded 80% energy if an attack is dodged, making the loss negligible; and the envenom buff is applied even if dodged.


You should aim to reforge away as much white hit (hit over 1332 rating), critical strike rating, and expertise rating as you can, as these three stats will be the ones to net you the biggest gains. Items with haste and mastery rating are perfectly itemized and should not be reforged if avoidable.
You should aim to reforge AWAY, as in get rid of, as much white hit, crit, and expertise as you can manage. I'm sorry though, I can definitely see how that could easily be misread and I'll edit it for clarity here in a minute.

01/11/2011 4:49 PMPosted by Picklejar
Mainhand:
2035.4: Vicious Gladiator's Shanker (PvP).
1940.7: Steelbender's Masterpiece.

Offhand:
962.9: Vicious Gladiator's Shiv (PvP).
960.8: Barim's Main Gauche.


Okay.
Just to make absolutely 100% sure, and pardon my silliness, but you are saying that in order to maximize DPS I should use the Vicious Glad Shanker/Shiv over my Steelbender/Barim's...

Yes, or no? Circle one please! hehe....
The Vicious Gladiator's Shanker is worth approx. 100 EP more than the best heroic-level dagger, which is roughly equivalent of 100 DPS, so yes, feel free to use it. Vicious Gladiator's Shiv is roughly equal to or worth less than other heroic-level 1.4-speed agility daggers, so you should avoid using it if possible. The difference is that mainhand DPS is worth quite a bit more than offhand DPS, so the increased damage makes up for the resilience on the mainhand, but not the offhand.
PS: This thread is absolutely invaluable. I have made my gear choices from this since I got my first piece of heroic gear. Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and actively answer questions!
I'm glad people are finding it useful. :)
I was doing some digging to try and figure out why EJ is being so dismissive of Thundering Skyflare Diamond in favor of metas like Destructive Shadowspirit Diamond or Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond, and ran across this post by Aldriana:
His numbers are actually pretty far off. TSD doesn't proc every 45 seconds - as I recall, its 1PPM with a 45 second ICD so usually procs slightly under once a minute. Its thus in the neighborhood of 48 haste rating (average case), and hence around 57 EP for Mut and around 70 for Combat - perhaps a bit more, as the nature of short-duration procs is that they tend to slightly overperform the average case in real fights.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t109652-cataclysm_entry_level_gear_list/p2/#post1819320

Will be adjusting the Thundering Skyflare Diamond accordingly; according to EJ the BiS metas are Destructive Shadowspirit Diamond or Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond, whichever one you can use without gemming especially for them.
811.5: Signet of the Elder Council (reputation).
806.1: Lightning Conductor Band (raiding).
744.8: Gilnean Ring of Ruination.


Why is the lightning conductor band better then the gilnean ring of ruination when Lightning Conductor Band has crit which is the probably the worst stat for an mut rogue ?

i'm trying to think of why it would be this way but i couldnt think of a reason, cuz if ur hit capped u can always reforge hit to mastery or haste. I just dont see why ?

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