Dungeon queue should be performance-based

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Wait...blues acknowledge we take most the flack now-a-days?
01/04/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Alida
Here's an idea, try to help/teach those that a re struggling instead of kicking them. As some people have said, taking time to teach someone can be beneficial.


I love this idea.



To queue as DPS:
Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds, while keeping one target CC'd and interrupting spells cast by the dummy.
If the target is out of CC for even a second, you die and fail the quest.
If you fail to interrupt the spell, you die and fail the quest.

Quest will have to be tailored to each class to take into account CC abilities and interrupt cooldowns.



My only concern with this is that it truly WILL take tailoring to each class, as, for example, DKs have no 'true' CC whatsoever.
01/04/2011 10:55 PMPosted by Arcata


Not taking a talent under the assumption you will always have a static group is the stupidest thing anyone can do.


Not really.

In LK I ran with a frost DK who was there for every single raid, as well as a prot warrior speced into making TC a 20% melee slow. Taking the points out of imp IT back then was well worth it. Same holds true now, I've been debating taking the points out of scarlet fever since I run with a prot warrior as my cotank as well as a fury and arms warrior in guild who raid and could keep demo shout up. I wont atm because heroics are difficultish and I obviously wont have them for all of those.. but for the purpose of raiding? Definitely, I can find better places for those points.
01/04/2011 10:55 PMPosted by Arcata


Not taking a talent under the assumption you will always have a static group is the stupidest thing anyone can do.


Especially considering that interrupting is a form of damage mitigation.

INTERRUPT TALENT = MITIGATION TALENT.

I'm looking at you, palleis and bears.

Sure, there will always be exceptions, for example, you NEVER raid with anyone other than your set raiding group. Btu in general, especially for heroics, which are what is under discussion here, I'm inclined to agree that passing that type of talent up is sub par and foolish.
The OP here has a really neat set of ideas... let me try and expand upon them a little bit.
Players seem to particularly like the "PvE Deathmatch" idea (as shown by the popularity of Ring-of-Blood style events), so I'm thinking we move in on that territory... create an "Arena" where the player zones in, and then receives an assignment and an NPC party.
I suggest that you must complete this quest IN EACH spec with which you'd like to que for the heroics... that is, if I want to be able to que as both a Tank and a DPS, I'll have to complete the quest twice... once in the tank line, once in the DPS line. Without doing so, I won't be able to check the appropriate box when queueing for heroics.

=================================
Healer Heroic Que quest :
Needed to Recieve quest : Average Ilevel330, Intellect item in every slot (excepting trinkets).

Misson : Heal your group as they move through the gauntlet, engage the boss, and defeat him. All friendly NPCs must survive for you to complete this mission.

<<Crumb Quest Text>>
In an effort to raise awareness (and funds!) for the reopening of Gnomeregan, King (gnomedudewhosenameIforgot) has called for a tournament of able bodied heroes! Apply outside of Ironforge!

<<Actual Quest Text>>
While liberating Gnomeregan, <Gnomish Hero> discovered a mutated Trogg, slumbering deep within the city. Deciding to let sleeping giants lie for the time, it is now your mission to destroy this abomination and aid the reclamation effort. Get past the last remaining Gnomeregan defenses, awaken the sleeping Trogg, and slay him. Bring back his head as proof.

>Quest Reward<
40 Intellect Gem
28gold
======================================

Details of Encounter ::
--------------------------
The healer zones into a tunnel, and is /waved at by four npcs... 2 melee DPS, 1 ranged DPS, and a tank. Possibly randomize the classes. There is a /readycheck from the NPCs, and when the healer clicks "Yes", the encounter begins.

Phase 1 : Tank moves forward, and several defense drones spawn... they zap everybody in the party a few times before the tank gets control of them, and then do some pretty serious damage to the tank until they get taken out. The key to surviving this part will be not panicking about the initial AoE and avoiding the temptation to "top everybody off" when the damage moves to the tank.

Phase 2 : Healer is offered a 30 second window to drink, then the tank character automatically moves forward. He encounters two large mobs... they have an AoE Stun on the melee, and then jump onto the ranged and attack. The point here will be to balance healing on who is actually going to be taking damage next, not on who is currently low on health.

Phase 3 : Party moves to Engage Boss. There will be a stacking debuff that must be cleansed off the tank. The Boss will put out ground effects under random party members that do damage and knock characters back (this will be targeted at the healer at least twice). There will be a phase where the tank takes a big spike damage (65% of health), and then the boss stops damaging tank and begins AoE damaging raid. At 25%, boss will enrage and beat down on tank... the group will blow hero, and the healer will get a prompt to blow a cooldown.


That's my healer thought, any ideas?
Chains of Ice, Strangulate, Frost Spec Pillar of Frost... what's that thing that works like an ice trap, desocration? I've had to CC as a DK before, it's different then stun/ polymorph, but it definitely can be done.
Posting in a thread that has a terrible idea supported by a Blue. News at 6.

...speaking of which, I hope GC plans on paying us a wage if he and his crew ever implements something like that. Because WoW will no longer become a game, but a job.
01/04/2011 10:43 PMPosted by Terceira


I play casually. And I still get to PUG. :oP


You probably do. But, under such system if you are a low performance player then you will find it much harder to find a pug. Your queue times will likely increase, and the groups you do find, will never accomplish very much in the dungeons.

Randoms for the regular player base, such as yourself will be improved outside of a longer queue time. For bad players, it will just decline. Unfortunately, in our world everyone is not equal in terms of intelligence and reaction time. For those people who are at the bottom of the barrel, well they are sort of just tossed aside in a system that gauges your performance.

If Blizzard were to segregate players based on how well they perform in dungeons, then it is obvious that they really are sending the message for bad players to just quit.
01/04/2011 11:03 PMPosted by Utakata
Posting in a thread that has a terrible idea supported by a Blue. News at 6.

...speaking of which, I hope GC plans on paying us a wage if he and his crew ever implements something like that. Because WoW will no longer become a game, but a job.


Sounds like somebody likes to be lazy in dungeon groups. You're probably one of those people who just does the minimum effort to get by with fights. That said, you're also probably one of the people I hate being grouped with in randoms.

I actually like the idea because when it takes over 8 minutes to kill the first boss in Vortex Pinnacle, that's about the time I'm ready to just say "Screw it" and drop group. << And yes, this happened earlier today.
01/04/2011 11:03 PMPosted by Neferetu
Chains of Ice, Strangulate, Frost Spec Pillar of Frost... what's that thing that works like an ice trap, desocration? I've had to CC as a DK before, it's different then stun/ polymorph, but it definitely can be done.


Chains of Ice is a kiting mechainc, not a "true" CC, Strangulate is a silence, not a "true" CC, Pillar of Frost is a self-CD strength buff, not a CC at all, Desecration is spec-specific (it's also just a snare, not a "true" CC).

This is what I mean by saying we do not have a true, refreshable root/stun/incapacitate mechanic like most people think of as a CC.

There are certainly things we can do, kiting chief among them, and I never said that that couldn't be done. I simply said that it would REALLY need to be taken into account, especially since CoI doesn't have a short-term rook effect anymore, it's just a snare.
01/04/2011 8:28 PMPosted by Zarhym
As a way to help more people improve instead of just blocking out the less knowledgeable players, does part of design goal have a sort of 'class coach' to help people realize their role, gear selection and abilities?

My fiance's best friend plays a mage, but she won't take advice from anyone and actually wore an agility cape from 78-85. :P

Sort of. One flaw with the current system, is if players fail in a pick-up group, they aren't told why they failed. People then tend to play the blame game, often directing malice at the healer(s).

So while I'm speaking more about class roles, I think the idea still lends itself to your question. It'd be helpful to get more information than just through trial and error. Groups could benefit if they knew they didn't wipe because the healer didn't manage mana well enough, but because the DPS wasn't high enough, or boss adds weren't properly rounded up, etc.


You might also want to reconsider some of the "interrupt this spell or someone dies" mechanics on 1 second casts (e.g. Cursed Bullet). What is your "coach" going to say to my Aussie friends who have 300-500ms latency? Move to America?
Healing isn't just about healing someone; healing is about managing your mana, keeping track of who needs a heal, who to heal, what spell to cast, whether you can DPS instead of heal. Tanking isn't just about keeping threat and picking up adds; tanking is about which group to pull, where the other groups are, whether to move the group somewhere else, if there are any other factors to take into account such as fire to not stand in. DPS isn't just about doing as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, CC or interrupts; DPS is about doing as much damage as possible while not pulling aggro, CCing if needed/possible, interrupts if needed/possible.

Also, you have 70 levels to learn all this running dungeons with the LFD system from level 15-85, so what would be the point of making someone figure this out at level 15 with the limited skill set they have because that is when they can start using the LFD system.
01/04/2011 11:09 PMPosted by Smacky

You might also want to reconsider some of the "interrupt this spell or someone dies" mechanics on 1 second casts (e.g. Cursed Bullet). What is your "coach" going to say to my Aussie friends who have 300-500ms latency? Move to America?


Hell, I run around 200ms and have my interrupt bound to one of my fastest keys to hit, and I still have trouble with Cursed Bullets if I'm off my game even a little. That mechanic in particular is pretty damn unforgiving if you don't have a dispel if your 5-man party. Even making it 1.5 seconds would be lovely.
I don't know... when I think of CC, I think of it as spells and ability which allow me to control crowds of enemies. In other MMOs, there are entire classes devoted to CC and some use debuffs considered as CC. As a DK, I can control a crowd a lot more than my priest with a fear every once in a great while. I can slow some down, stop casters from casting, do all sorts of things to direct a crowd of enemies.

It's not the same as a rogue/paladin/warrior stun or a druid/hunter root, or turning them into an animal.

And I'm not sure if it was pillar, it was that ability that freezes everything around you, can't remember the name of the blasted thing. Where only DK disease DoTs can tick on 'em else they get broken out.

The point was just that I think "true" CC is loosely defined in WoW.
This is an amazing idea and executed properly, would probably cause me to resub.

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