Dungeon queue should be performance-based

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I'm not even casual and I don't like this.

It's bulky and unnecessary given the current state we find ourselves in. We have vote to kick. If someone is doing poor DPS and it's detrimental to the group you have the option to kick them.

Fights are too varied and complex to think a cheap litmus test can remotely come close to preparing someone for everything that would be thrown at them in your typical LFD scenario. Not to mention not everyone has difficulty with the same issues. I know a lot of people that can do high dps and interrupt like a champ, but die during transition phases or failed at Safety Dance.

The tools are there in LFD. Don't like how well someone is doing? /boot
12/28/2010 1:01 AMPosted by Kimarla
There should be an IQ test before you're allowed to breed, too. Doesn't mean it's ever gonna happen.


Better throw in the A-hole test as well. Alas...
I think some people are being too optimistic about what these 'requirement quests' can do.
There is no way they can prepare someone to be able to handle every single situation thrown to them in dungeons and heroics.
Even if there was a way of doing so, there wouldn't be much point then, because that would trivialise the actual dungeons.
You would never encounter anything new and unexpected, and it would just be a dull loot run.
Certainly, that will happen eventually, but for that to happen as part of the 'attunement' process?
Doesn't sound appealing.

However, there is a need to have some minimum standard of basic performance.
The ability to do a certain level of dps.
To interrupt a spell.
To CC a target and keep it CC'd.
To generate a decent level of threat.
To know which heals to use to not go oom too quick.
etc.

Rather than setting the minimum bar be some gear level, which is clearly not a very good indicator of actual performance, there should instead be a simple quest that tests these BASIC skills.

Once armed with these basic skills, the other skills like not standing in the fire, or avoiding that red fire thing with a beam aimed at you, can come by doing the actual dungeons themselves.
Love the idea. If not to just lay down a certain bar so you're not getting total noobs. A little polishing and this would be great
Unfortunately the low level dungeons don't help teach the proper resource management because they're all facerolls. I did Gnomeregan on my lowbie hunter a few days ago and I was so disappointed because it was EASY. I remember when that place took forever and you usually wiped at least once at the dark iron guys.

They really need some sort of practice area. So you aren't grouped with people who lose their patience and chew you out. I know something like that happened to me and I haven't healed since.
What about if as you do dungeons your performance is recorded (Like on Xbox live or something) and you get matched with players of the same performance?
ITT: People who hate new players.
"thumbs up"

Although the mechanics of the "test" would have to be class specific and spec specific. It would be a pretty complex deal.

It would be cool though just testing your own skills. Almost like a mini-game with progressively harder levels.
that sounds cooooooo
While I like the idea, please remember the "scary" similarity to this that existed in Wrath.

Malygos remained an incredibly difficult fight for a large number of players despite increasing player gear levels and reducing the number of player controlled abilities to six.

Occulus still had people quitting before the first pull up to the day Cata released because they were too scared of the normalzing factor of the drakes. Again despite gear making it an absolute cakewalk.

The "3-man" quest in Grizzly Hills where people still failed at 80 in 245 gear despite people soloing it at 75 with quest blues/greens. Granted class/spec dependant, but that's kind of the point with this idea too.

I still like the idea, but I suspect the factor of requiring people to demonstrate competence of their own class when past requirements to just show understanding of basic mechanics have failed isn't a good sign.

As a possible solution to some of the arguments against: could make multiple possible scenarios for each "level" that emulate actual fights from existing dungeons. Doesn't have to be boss fights as sometimes trash packs are more difficult for certain classes than bosses. Shadow Labyrinth and Shattered Halls come to mind.

To an extent this would be similar to the old Hunter level 60 quest for the Artifact Bow where you had to demonstrate some decent skills at their job of kiting.
This will never happen no matter how good of an idea it is, i personaly do not think it is a good idea, because it would discourage people from playing tanks\healer for newplayers. Also people would complain of it being "too hard" just like cata heroics.
Not meeting hit/expertise cap.


good to know you're willing to %%*! every feral druid when it comes to DPS.

Hit and expertise aren't that big of an issue to us.
12/28/2010 10:03 PMPosted by Winterhoof
Not meeting hit/expertise cap.


good to know you're willing to %%*! every feral druid when it comes to DPS.

Hit and expertise aren't that big of an issue to us.

Note that I never said there should be a requirement to be hit/expertise capped.
If you have 0 hit and 0 expertise yet can still do over the minimum dps threshold, you 'pass' and can queue for dungeons.

Conversely, if you are hit/expertise capped but don't know the correct rotations etc and thus fail to do over the minimum dps threshold, you 'fail' and cannot queue for dungeons until you learn how to play more effectively.
Great idea.

Don't see it happening though.
12/28/2010 12:35 AMPosted by Sinkinglight
There should be quests in major cities that must be completed to enable queuing for a dungeon.

To queue as DPS:
Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds.

To queue as Tank:
Hold aggro on this target and survive for t seconds.

To queue as Healer:
Keep this target up for t seconds.


For harder dungeons, higher difficulty quests must be completed, e.g. to queue for heroics:

To queue as DPS:
Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds, while keeping one target CC'd and interrupting spells cast by the dummy.
If the target is out of CC for even a second, you die and fail the quest.
If you fail to interrupt the spell, you die and fail the quest.

Quest will have to be tailored to each class to take into account CC abilities and interrupt cooldowns.


To queue as Tank:
Hold aggro on this target and survive for t seconds while interrupting spells cast by the dummy.
Occasionally burst damage will be taken, and the tank will be required to use CDs effectively to manage.
Adds will spawn occasionally that the tank must pick up.
Again, any failure results in death and failure of quest.


To queue as Healer:
Keep this group of NPCs up while they kill this target dummy that does things a typical boss might do (damage on tank, AoE).
Obviously running oom or insufficient hps results in death and failure of quest.


Why this is necessary:
Problems with restricting queues based on average item level:
- Item level doesn't take into account gearing for the most ideal stats for the class/spec.
e.g. dps casters taking spirit gear.
Not meeting hit/expertise cap.
Doesn't distinguish between a 'tank' wearing dps gear and a tank wearing avoidance gear.

- Item level doesn't take into account player skill.
I'm sure people have seen dps do under 5k at 85, while also seeing skilled players do over 5k at 80.

- Gearing to push up item level to enable queuing for new dungeons encourages ninja-looting, instead of only taking what is actually beneficial.


I dont think it should be required, but I think players should have the option to do this. Like be given a quest from class trainers to complete the things you stated above.
But again no I don't believe they should be a requirement to que into dungeons.
I think it's a great idea! It's easy to get into heroics with crap gear - just carry around gear you can't use! Far better to measure people by their ability. You have crap gear but can play well? Come on in. You have great gear but don't know your rotation? L2P.

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