PVE Holy Pally Reforging/Gemming

Paladin
3 raiding holy pallys from 3 of the top US guilds...

More than likely, they are starving for regen because they're doing Heroic raids. I doubt any of those guilds have their entire raid decked out with a 359 in every slot. Until they have that, they will be trying to cut corners as much as possible in an effort to still see progression since Blizz intends us to walk into hardmodes with full normal mode gear.

It doesn't seem like that is necessary for normal raids.
12/30/2010 12:27 PMPosted by Rabel
Its still highly debatable how much Mastery is worth. This bandwagon of Haste has got to stop, though. NEVER has it been good enough to stack over everything else but Spirit and Intellect... Haste has benefit that varies based on its amount, and it does continue to be a strong stat, but it has some big downsides...

Please, if you want to be the most efficiently geared, follow my advice. Haste to 774 rating (6%, 13 ticks of HR) then Crit and Mastery in various amounts. For this tier you're going to have a hard time beating that setup, I think.


I agree with this guy. I have healed several Heroics while reforging in this manner and I have zero mana issues. This method of reforging was also highly suggested on Elitist Jerks which I'm not saying is "Law" but tells you there has been some number crunching to suggest that it's not a bad idea. I have went from a "let me find a safe spot to heal" healer to a "Judge Light, Crusader Strike, Consecrate, HoW melee healer"....AND I LOVE IT~~~Thanks Blizz.
No clue why people are putting Crit > Mastery when Mastery is obviously better then Crit.

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Intellect
Intellect is our most important stat along with spirit. It provides increased HPS since intellect and spellpower have been rolled into one. It also increases regeneration from Divine Plea and replenishment. Intellect has no conflicts with other stats or any potential downsides. You should most likely be gemming this stat (though int/spi gems may be smart choices for socket color).

Spirit
This is our bread and butter and the minimum you should aim for is the amount that lets you keep casting HS/HL/WoG without losing mana (around 2500 at level 85 with buffs). Other spells will be used obviously, but the point is to make it so the really expensive ones don't hurt as much when you do have to use them.

Haste
Before Cataclysm, your haste soft cap is 675 where your global cooldown will be 1 second and cannot be improved further. Cataclysm-style healing relies on a good deal of holy light casts which can be hasted further than this so it continues to be valuable after 675. After Cataclysm the soft cap will raise significantly so haste will retain its position as a very important stat. More haste means more Daybreak procs. It doesn't necessarily mean you use more mana either in conjunction with Tower of Radiance and cheap holy lights .

Mastery
As of 10/10/2010 mastery in beta does not roll and it subsequent heals that heal for less than a heal before it only refresh the shield on your target. If you crit a heal and then heal with a second spell that doesn't crit the second spell will not have any effect from mastery (unless the second one was larger). This means the stat is very poor.

Crit
Crit has been nerfed because it no longer affects our regen at all in Cataclysm. While extra healing is nice and it helps out our mastery, the potential for overhealing still exists. It should be less likely in Cataclysm with such large health pools, but crit is also unpredictable. Crit and mastery are roughly equal in value (the non-rolling mastery).

12/30/2010 1:04 PMPosted by Dancingmad
Its still highly debatable how much Mastery is worth. This bandwagon of Haste has got to stop, though. NEVER has it been good enough to stack over everything else but Spirit and Intellect... Haste has benefit that varies based on its amount, and it does continue to be a strong stat, but it has some big downsides...

Please, if you want to be the most efficiently geared, follow my advice. Haste to 774 rating (6%, 13 ticks of HR) then Crit and Mastery in various amounts. For this tier you're going to have a hard time beating that setup, I think.


Wow, are you kidding? For nearly the entire second half of WOTLK, after Illumination was nerfed again, Haste was the best paladin stat after intellect. Right now? It's still the best stat that you can reforge to (as you can't reforge to int, and all of your gear should have spirit on it).

There is NO cap on haste until your gcd is at 1 second and there is no magic number of haste. The people who say there is have no idea how the stat works.


I read this and I agree totally, if you are able to reforge to Haste then DO IT, as long as you do not dump Spirit.

Thinks to look for when reforging are the following.

The following is in order of what to switch first if given the option.

Crit -> Spirit
or
Crit -> Haste

Mastery -> Spirit
or
Master -> Haste

You should never switch Mastery for Crit.
12/31/2010 4:26 AMPosted by Jroark
Its still highly debatable how much Mastery is worth. This bandwagon of Haste has got to stop, though. NEVER has it been good enough to stack over everything else but Spirit and Intellect... Haste has benefit that varies based on its amount, and it does continue to be a strong stat, but it has some big downsides...

Please, if you want to be the most efficiently geared, follow my advice. Haste to 774 rating (6%, 13 ticks of HR) then Crit and Mastery in various amounts. For this tier you're going to have a hard time beating that setup, I think.


I agree with this guy. I have healed several Heroics while reforging in this manner and I have zero mana issues. This method of reforging was also highly suggested on Elitist Jerks which I'm not saying is "Law" but tells you there has been some number crunching to suggest that it's not a bad idea. I have went from a "let me find a safe spot to heal" healer to a "Judge Light, Crusader Strike, Consecrate, HoW melee healer"....AND I LOVE IT~~~Thanks Blizz.


How can you ever base anything off of Dungeons, EVEN IN HEROIC? Heroics mean nothing, its only Raids. In my type of gear, I can heal a tank/raid through a NORMAL while pulling all the trash with the bosses, and I NEVER have to drink a single time on Heroics. I even wasted all my mana before the last boss in Lost City of Tol'Vir to prove to my friends.

Heroics and Normals are not a credited base for information, only raids are.
12/31/2010 4:39 AMPosted by Wîggles


I agree with this guy. I have healed several Heroics while reforging in this manner and I have zero mana issues. This method of reforging was also highly suggested on Elitist Jerks which I'm not saying is "Law" but tells you there has been some number crunching to suggest that it's not a bad idea. I have went from a "let me find a safe spot to heal" healer to a "Judge Light, Crusader Strike, Consecrate, HoW melee healer"....AND I LOVE IT~~~Thanks Blizz.


How can you ever base anything off of Dungeons, EVEN IN HEROIC? Heroics mean nothing, its only Raids. In my type of gear, I can heal a tank/raid through a NORMAL while pulling all the trash with the bosses, and I NEVER have to drink a single time on Heroics. I even wasted all my mana before the last boss in Lost City of Tol'Vir to prove to my friends.

Heroics and Normals are not a credited base for information, only raids are.


Hmm...Let me help you with this one. I've not raid healed on this guy since Cata but you knew this already. There are two people in my guild....Me and my wife. PUGs are all I know so check your elitist attitude at the forum doors please because you really don't come off as being anything but rude. Healing Heroic 5 mans can be VERY difficult if not geared/gemmed/chanted properly. The point of the thread is to discuss reforging priorities, not how good you are that you don't need mana for heroic dungeon boss fights. You'll get no more replies from me.
Stacking spirit isn't a "shortcut". These last few bosses (even on regular mode) are VERY long fights that are, for the most part, demanding from start to finish. I understand more throughput is better if you AREN'T running out of mana, but not running out of mana during a 4-5 minute fight is significantly easier then doing the same during a 10 minute fight.

It boils down to a few simple questions:

    1. Do my heals hit hard enough?
    If the answer is no, then you increase efficiency.
    2. Do my heals hit fast enough?
    If the answer is no, then you increase throughput.
    3. Am I running out of mana?
    If the answer is yes, then you increase regen.

You're assuming that we will run out of mana on the longer fights before even attemtping them. I don't think that will be the case. Ultimately, time will tell.

Also, I checked all of the links to the armory. You realize that their spirit is not much farther ahead than mine right? They're about the same level of spirit as I am. Higher, of course, because their gear is better, but they aren't much farther ahead.

Eventually, spirit will become a less important statistic. This WILL happen if the designers have any intention of sticking to their design philosophies. They want spirit to be less attractive as it's levels increase.
12/31/2010 5:15 AMPosted by Omèn

Eventually, spirit will become a less important statistic. This WILL happen if the designers have any intention of sticking to their design philosophies. They want spirit to be less attractive as it's levels increase.


Given the diminishing returns on intellect regen from the mana regeneration formula, I'm not so sure about that.

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