Tol Barad Honor Change

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Well blizz, this change really does nothing to fix the massive problems with Tol Barad. On my server, there are literally HUNDREDS of Horde waiting on the bridge because the Alliance either refuses to queue for defense or just doesn't bother. I realize that on large imbalanced servers skew W/L ratios for the factions, but something serious needs to be done about this.

TBH, the 1800 honor "exploit" was at least some kind of booby prize for never being able to actually fight in TB.

I have not been able to participate in 1 offensive TB for the last 3 weeks, I almost always queue right at the 15 minute mark when it becomes available.

You either need to give people some kind of incentive to participate in a (losing) defense, or get rid of this 1:1 queuing system.


I've read that blizzard's position is that these imbalanced servers will correct themselves with increased faction changes, which I find absurd (and a sinister money grab). Some of us have large populations of friends/enjoy the faction we play on, and I for one refuse to faction change just so I can play in a broken, lame world-BG.

I really hope this blog about the upcoming changes to TB comes out soon, because I honestly don't think you care how long this sits in a sorry state.

I won't even start complaining about all of the minor bugs (mostly graphical/environmental) that haven't been fixed yet, some that even go back to 4.0.1.

This game is really starting to wear on my patience, with it taking MONTHS to correct even the smallest of bugs/problems
I doubt people will even use the bridge exploit since it appears it isn't really worth it anymore.
What is the plan to balance gear since some people got a free set of gear for violating your spirit of competition while others got absolutely nothing?
01/03/2011 1:26 PMPosted by Zarhym
As you’re probably aware by now, an update was applied to Tol Barad shortly before the holidays which granted the attacking side 1800 Honor Points for a victory. While the goal with that change was to provide more incentive for the attacking forces to claim victory, it ultimately led to an undermining of the spirit of competition in Tol Barad. We’ve just applied a hotfix which has lowered the attacking faction’s gain to 360 Honor Points for a victory. The defending faction will still earn 180 Honor Points for a victory.

We appreciate all of your feedback regarding this change. We'll continue working to make Tol Barad a fun and engaging PvP environment.


Is there a reason you can't just change the win condition to 2 of 3?

It's far from perfect, but TB is just awful as it is. Would at least make it playable while you work out a long term fix.
01/03/2011 1:33 PMPosted by Kittikat
You should reverse the honor points imo. 1800 to successfully defend, 180 for successfully attacking.

harder to exploit, as the defenders wouldn't want to lose their honor, and attackers have to win TWICE to get the 1800. Once to win the attack, and once more to win at defense.

have you ever actually been to a TB match - or did you just leech free honor for the last week??? the reason they changed it was because it was too easy to defend lol
I thought it was the design of Tol Barad that is undermining the spirit of competition?
What was the point of messing with the honor gain anyways, if you were just going to make it so one faction will control it the vast majority of the time again by re-nerfing the honor gained?

You guys could've atleast fixed the BG with one of the billions of ideas thrown out this past month when you changed the honor back.
While you are repairing the bridge can you consider repairing the actual battleground?

01/03/2011 1:37 PMPosted by Toddless
looks like I can go back to sleeping.


LOL so true
More importantly why dont u fix the alliance guards in TB, horde guards one shot us, alliance guards ignore players completely in our base. Horde camp zone in daily...fix that
I never understood the increase in incentive as a fix for Tol Barad. I don't think it's a lack of incentive that is the problem. Control of TB for the raid boss plus extra dailies is plenty incentive.

Attackers can have all the incentive they want and still not win. The problem is the imbalance towards defenders.

At least with Wintergrasp, things were weighted towards the attackers, thereby allowing WG to change hands frequently. This allowed everyone to get a shot at the VoA bosses.

But with TB, with balance favoring defenders who care about defending, control shifts very rarely, meaning there are often entire nights when one faction controls TB. None of that has anything to do with incentive. Control of TB raid plus dailies is a big enough incentive for attackers IF the chance of victory is present.

The one good thing that the 1800 honor did was keep TB changing hands by dis-incentivising victory for defenders, and now you've taken that away without another solution to allow TB to change hands.

IMO, for most players, having some kind of equitable access to Baradin Hold and the TB Dailies is a priority over achieving the "spirit of competition" in TB. Many of us schedule our raids for certain nights so that we can balance raiding and RL priorities. It's pretty disappointing to not get to raid Baradin Hold on the one night you're available because your side is on offense all night. Again, plenty of incentive. But that doesn't matter if attackers can't win against defenders who care enough to defend.

Please, come up with a quick fix to shift balance towards attackers, and then find an equitable long-term solution that allows for shifts and spirit of competition.
I am very annoyed by the fact that I don't get to participate in TB. If there is something that should be fixed then you need to let people join a World PvP zone as World PvP and not treat it like a BG queue with random selection on players.

I donno? Maybe implement a battlegroup wide TB instance that determines which faction controls TB for all the servers in the battlegroup. Just a thought, I am sure its more complex than this.

*My point is, I'd rather wait in queue thinking that I will be selected for sure, rather than wait in queue and be not selected.
People want to get PVP gear so they can stop PVPing once they get it?
01/03/2011 1:48 PMPosted by Shinderu

We're working on a fix for this right now.


Great. Since the chances of horde getting in to an attacking TB on our server is probably < 10% I look forward to rarely seeing the benefits of part of your game.

Or you could, you know,make something that's fun that everyone can and wants to participate in.


Easier said than done. If they let everyone into TB, people just like you will be back complaining that it's unfair because X side always wins because they outnumber the other faction 3:1.

I propose the following changes to Tol Barad:

-Ironclad Garrison, Slagworks, and Warden's Vigil all start out Neutral.
-Capping all three bases results in a victory.
-Holding two until the timer runs out results in a victory.
-Timer is changed to 15-25 minutes.
-Spires are changed to increase the defenders/attackers damage/healing/cap speed by X% depending on whether or not they are destroyed.
It would be nice if instead of adjusting honor gains superfluously you actually acknowledge and work on the garbage mechanics put through in this zone.

It has to be painfully obvious that you guys dropped the ball on the design of this zone.
01/03/2011 1:26 PMPosted by Zarhym
As you’re probably aware by now, an update was applied to Tol Barad shortly before the holidays which granted the attacking side 1800 Honor Points for a victory. While the goal with that change was to provide more incentive for the attacking forces to claim victory, it ultimately led to an undermining of the spirit of competition in Tol Barad. We’ve just applied a hotfix which has lowered the attacking faction’s gain to 360 Honor Points for a victory. The defending faction will still earn 180 Honor Points for a victory.

We appreciate all of your feedback regarding this change. We'll continue working to make Tol Barad a fun and engaging PvP environment.


First off thank you for making this fix. It was embarassing seeing fellow horde tell people to intentionally lose TB to the alliance. However now you are back to square one. If you really wanted an incentive to win how about the following.

As a solution what if instead of instantly making winning on offense so rewarding that both sides trade wins, you make it so that it gradually becomes a greater incentive to win. For example, if you win your first offensive battle you get 180 honor, but if there is a successful defense the next battle will award 360 if you win, and goes up another 180 for every successful defense, and caps out at the max of 1800 after 10 defenses.

What this does is give the offense more incentive to try to win the longer the other faction holds TB but there is no incentive to throw the battle as there is little benefit even if you throw 10 games in a row since you would have been winning 180x10 instead of 1800 all at once.
Thanks, I never got into one queue for TB after trying around 15 times. I also keep running into players in the opposite faction that are completely geared in PvP/Honor gear that wipe the floor with me. Thanks blizz!

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