Tol barad and the 100 vs 30 fight!

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Does TB still have a minimum number of players before the 1:1 ratio thing kicks in? I've only seen stuff about that since before Cata launch and no confirmation of if it is 25 or 10 players.
You still should drop from the raid immediately because if the raid leader is a jerk he/she can remove you from the raid, and that WILL port you out. At least it did as recent as a month ago.


Not to sort of trump your quote, but I don't think THEY overcame impossible odds, They were zerged.
Well something is still up. I have been in Tol, barads, where the horde have had 2 raids groups to our 1, and the allaince is by the the more active and large force on the server.

We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.


Hmm, there is indeed imbalance if numbers are low enough.

I have a friend who plays horde on the same realm and we've compared numbers in the early AM and found as much as a 10 player discrepancy.

Another point, the losing team is more likely to suffer attrition than the winning team. As such, toward the end of a battle (~5 minutes remaining), the losing team loses members, but the winning team does not. This creates a small, but self-defeating, imbalance for the losing team.

While I would agree with you that things are generally balanced, to say that they are completely balanced and that you "keep a close eye" on balance is a bit of an overstatement.



They didn't overcome *@!*, they all died.
They also had a lot more than 300 people.


They ALSO had some very favorable terrain that only allowed for minimal exposure at any given time...

the problem with lol barad is simple... D "group up and run circles... anything that gets taken zerg it... and move on"

O "we have to hold all three so split into three groups and go... also go asap and drop those towers or we'll run out of time..."

Meanwhile....

D "Zerg lol... zZzZzZzZerg!! /faceroll = win"

Edit - upon further reflection it appears to be a giant game of whack a mole from the defensive perspective... Even if O matches strategies (zerging)...
I know for a fact 1:1 isn't true. I went in a few days back. I was the only one in my raid. I was like, "Sweet. There's only one other guy. I can do this!" and then three guys came around the corner in Iron and creamed me.
How closely does it balance, lately the alliance on my server have been seeming very numerous, as in almost our entire team would go to their last base, and meet a force that seem to out number us, while the 5 of us defending our bases would get zerged by about 20+ ppl.

I was srsly having doubts about the balance so I wrote an addon to count the members in tb (by each class). And ran it on both alliance and horde side during battles. Most battles they are coming out about equal, with in 1 or 2 (more ppl joining while its running I guess) but this last game it was 76 to 68, that difference isn't big enough to satisfy me about cheating, but does make me wonder how close it keeps it.
Honestly I find no problem with it the way it is. It changes hands pretty steadily on my server not every battle but no one keeps it for days either. To me that seems like exactly what blizzard wants. I have been on offense where it seemed completely hopeless and then all of the sudden a mistake was made and everything changed. As far as the exploit people are talking about, I am not sure. Always seems pretty even to me but how can you really tell? If they are saying they watch it and that the teams are being kept even do you really think they are just lying? I am sure they have much more effective ways to monitor the amount of players then a /who............


01/27/2011 2:25 PMPosted by Kyndranigar
I know for a fact 1:1 isn't true. I went in a few days back. I was the only one in my raid. I was like, "Sweet. There's only one other guy. I can do this!" and then three guys came around the corner in Iron and creamed me.


I am pretty sure there can be more than one raid for each faction #1 and also there was talk about it not enforcing a 1:1 until a certain number of people join not sure about that though. I find it highly unlikely that you were the ONLY person to queue from your whole faction.
01/27/2011 12:37 PMPosted by Pinkis
Leonidas and the 300 spartans overcame impossible odds.

EDIT: And they did it in real life.


If you get all your information from blockbuster movies, I guess.

But in 'real life' they had thousands of greeks, and thousand of slaves to fight by their side. As stated earlier, they were also in favourable terrain. I hope by "overcame impossible odds" you actually mean were flanked and butchered, right?
01/27/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Bashiok
We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance



If this was actually true a change would have been made already. On Mal'ganis ,due to the horde having a significantly larger population, the Alliance control TB at all times, except maybe at 3am. Considering that 4.0.6 isn't really far off though I dont expect to see any changes for months to long, in true blizzard fashion, because the only time decent changes are made is in major patches. Wouldnt want to release a patch JUST to fix Tol Barad someone might cry.
01/27/2011 2:32 PMPosted by Moldyoldsock
We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance



If this was actually true a change would have been made already. On Mal'ganis ,due to the horde having a significantly larger population, the Alliance control TB at all times, except maybe at 3am. Considering that 4.0.6 isn't really far off though I dont expect to see any changes for months to long, in true blizzard fashion, because the only time decent changes are made is in major patches. Wouldnt want to release a patch JUST to fix Tol Barad someone might cry.
How does having a larger population mean that you lose more?
Question, how is it being monitored? If the bug DID exist, it could exist in part because something in their system is not seeing the correct numbers? Then when they are going to look at the numbers and balance, all they are seeing is the false balance that allows the bug in the first place.
it is a exploit, if you leave raid while TB is going on you do not get ported out and it lets an additional person in.


It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependant on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players. We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal, even in cases where we found people actively attempting to use this to outnumber the opposing team. They weren't.

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.


I know for a fact that there are ways to drop from the "official" raid group and invite people to a different raid group that allows people from outside TB into the battle without being ported out.
01/27/2011 1:24 PMPosted by Ellïpsis


Its completely getting outplayed, I agree, but its also an unfair advantage. If a sport has 2 captains and only one captain was allowed to pick his team and the other captains team was chosen randomly, who is going to win?


this is a really poor comparison...this is a video game, the consequences are your pixels don't look the way you may want them to; in the real world someone loses millions of dollars...nothing is preventing you from grabbing a bunch of ppl jumping in a vent( or mumble, or whatever shared communication channel) and doing the exact same thing you all have the same tools available to you thus an even playing field...with pixels


You sir are missing the point, WE DO get in vent and get ready for tol barad, but because of our horrible 20:1 faction imbalance on our server 1 or 2 out of a whole raid group might actually get into the battle..
01/08/2011 2:38 PMPosted by Nazarid
so i dont ever post... but this has be just irritated beyond anything this game has ever done to piss me off... Why is it that during Tol Barad there can be 2 or 3 to 1 odds agianst us when it is saposed to be a 1 to 1 ratio...? maybe this is a well known issue or an exploit but it is $%^$%^ crap... my server has not had Tol Barad for the horde in 6 days ... because of this glitch or w/e this #$%# is.

Can i get some clarification as to why more than a 1 to 1 ratio is available in tol barad? is it a known issue? and how much longer do i have to suffer before a fix comes?


It just feels like 3:1 if you're on offense. It's impossible to win unless the other team royally screws up and the offense plays very well.

Since these are PUG groups, it happens that the defense screws up just enough (mostly late at night/early morning) to swap this thing once in a great while.
01/27/2011 2:36 PMPosted by Kooqu
How does having a larger population mean that you lose more?


Well one of the reasons is you can turtle one base and never lose, or play ring around the rosie. But that has almost nothing to do with horde have 20x more people.

The faction inbalance allows the alliance to set up a premade group before the battle (becuase they can always get as many people as they want in) with vent and all that stuff. While the horde get a bunch of randoms, that could be ilvl300 green kings, into the match to fight them. In particular there are guild groups that show up to almost any match.

Sure it might not be a massive advantage to have a premade group for every battle. But putting a premade team against a random assortment of horde with the fact tol barad is balanced in-favor of the defending team, makes winning a match outside of the 3am area almost impossible.

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