Did Paragon enjoy their journey?

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01/20/2011 6:27 PMPosted by Zarhym
Not only were they trying to learn the mechanics and develop strategies, but we were watching closely, hotfixing several different issues as they stumbled across them. This meant they had to adapt to the changes we were making on the spot in addition to figuring out how to kill her -- and she's definitely no pushover.


I feel like Blizzard should have a QA team for this sort of thing.
Paragon is from Korea no?

Well as you may or may not be aware, Koreans do not play games for fun, they play for masochism.

(This is purely a generalization, as many many MANY acts of "gaming-masochism" have occurred in Korea, and I imagine that Paragon is one of them)


european guild

and paragon were not really "hating" the content as opposed to feeling overall frustrated at the core design of the encounters and how they were handled by the dev department

Not only were they trying to learn the mechanics and develop strategies, but we were watching closely, hotfixing several different issues as they stumbled across them. This meant they had to adapt to the changes we were making on the spot in addition to figuring out how to kill her -- and she's definitely no pushover.


and that's where the whole idea failed

Paragon shouldn't have to "stumble" upon bugs and hotfix, they should've just enjoyed/experience the encounter

instead of, like they said, actually being scared of using Dark simulacrum at a bad spot or doing something that created a bug and being punished/mocked for that, that should not happen, period
Paragon is from Korea no?

Well as you may or may not be aware, Koreans do not play games for fun, they play for masochism.

(This is purely a generalization, as many many MANY acts of "gaming-masochism" have occurred in Korea, and I imagine that Paragon is one of them)


they're from finland or something

I have learned something today.

Well after going to their site, it seems that they make plenty off ad revenue, so that is likely a prime reason to keep playing.

EDIT: Not that having fun is not present, but I can't imagine anyone would want to keep going at such an insane pace if there was no motivation but fun without profit.
01/20/2011 6:54 PMPosted by Aloeverra
I believe the answer you're looking for is here by Paragon:

Overall just a very weird raiding experience. Some good stuff, some bad stuff, some unfinished/buggy stuff, but definitely very stressful. Personally I’m not sure what to think of it quite yet.


Sounds 50 /50 to me at best. Probably leaning to not enjoyable really as I don't know many people that like to play a video game for the stress it might give them.


You're also referring to a top 1% of this game population that makes it their eating, sleeping, and breathing job to play wow. These guys are more stressed than having fun almost 100% of the time. They are trying to intentionally speed through content, while sacrificing many things in the process for world first kills and "e-fame". So, whenever I see anyone relating to an article written by someone in an upper echelon guild, I ignore it. They are a unique, small slice of this game, and by no means represent the other 99% of gamers playing WoW.
I do think you have to take the tone of that post in the context in which it was written. Because Sinestra is a super-hardcore boss, they were pretty much the first ones to really push her mechanics to the limits. It's easy to see from their post that they were understandably frustrated. Not only were they trying to learn the mechanics and develop strategies, but we were watching closely, hotfixing several different issues as they stumbled across them. This meant they had to adapt to the changes we were making on the spot in addition to figuring out how to kill her -- and she's definitely no pushover.

We do wish it would have been a cleaner fight for them, but we really appreciate them pushing the limits of hardcore raiding, and testing us to design new and compelling challenges. :)


0 shaman


Your response to the blue post made me laugh IRL. Lol.
I don't even know--or care to know--about some silly WoW guild. So they cleared content, I'm assuming? What's the big deal?

e-fame, yo.

*sigh*...people, people...where did we go wrong as a species?
01/20/2011 6:51 PMPosted by Kierakasha

You know what fixes that?

Beta testing.

Just saying.


Personally, I'm more than willing to accept buggy encounters at launch in exchange for actually having at least one boss that's a surprise on live, instead of everything already having exact strats in place before the boss is even is even actually in the game.
01/20/2011 8:47 PMPosted by Gixia

You know what fixes that?

Beta testing.

Just saying.


Personally, I'm more than willing to accept buggy encounters at launch in exchange for actually having at least one boss that's a surprise on live, instead of everything already having exact strats in place before the boss is even is even actually in the game.


Maybe Blizz should consider contracting out to some of the "top end" guilds to do in house, private testing so everything is a surprise at launch. Because apparently Blizzards in house testing team is really bad and can't test the heroic bosses, or doesn't exist.
Of course they did not enjoy it. They're on a highly stressful competition for the world's best guild, they are spending hour upon hour as unwilling beta testers for fights that were left undisclosed during beta.

This is their job. Work is work and work sucks, even if it just playing WoW.

01/20/2011 8:47 PMPosted by Gixia
Personally, I'm more than willing to accept buggy encounters at launch in exchange for actually having at least one boss that's a surprise on live, instead of everything already having exact strats in place before the boss is even is even actually in the game.


This. Elite guilds pioneering heroic encounters have been doing this since Molten Core. It's what separates them from us mortals.
01/20/2011 6:59 PMPosted by Feorius
I love my job.


me 2
01/20/2011 6:59 PMPosted by Ironwolff


You know what fixes that?

Beta testing.

Just saying.


Lol, funniest thing I have saw today.

And in Blizz'es world, beta testing doesn't fix anything.
There was not a single bug in Cata release that had not been reported numerous times by numerous people.
And every one of them went live.


I'll bet money some of them still haven't been fixed on PTR and even a few that still haven't been acknowledged.
For a guild like that, they don't enjoy content, they just do it. The games not about fun for them.



0 shaman


Your response to the blue post made me laugh IRL. Lol.

I did as well. The shaman community has some great representatives like Strawberry and Rouncer who are rather adept at drawing up lengthy, detailed posts about exactly what's ailing us and possible fixes.

But sometimes less is more. We have problems. Just look at us, will you? Can you in good faith say it's fair to punish shamans by nerfing mana tide, purge, hex, and bloodlust in arena all within such a relatively short timeframe when shamans aside from resto weren't even all that highly represented, but then at the same time look away when they're excluded from this world first kill not as select specs, but as a class?

Quoted from Paragon--
Shaman is such a useless class atm. It's hard to understand how blizzard is so damn blind or just ignorant so that they don't do anything to this. Hopefully they fix it so other shamans get chance to play the game..

Personally I'm off to play arena, at least the class is "op" for something. Just a shame that I don't like pvp that much, but cant do proper pve atm

http://www.paragon.fi/news/sinestra-slain

Resto is only brought for mana tide totem at the moment, the healing shamans do isn't good enough compared to paladins and priests. Also the fact that shamans have pretty much non utility or useful cooldowns for raid or tanks makes the class really useless. On some fights double tide was good, especial at lower gear levels but as for Sinestra the fight just isn't made such that tide was needed so thats why no resto shamans.

I've played as elemental on couple of fights. Mainly to interrupt, obviously you can do that with resto spec also with some hit talents but in those fights dps was needed more then having 2 tides for healers. As for Sinestra there was no need for shaman interrupts. Also it's pretty much known that elemental shaman doesn't work too well on fights which have movement or lots of aoe needed. For those fights demo lock is better option to give 10% spell power buff. So as 95% of cataclysm fights need either aoe or movement demo lock was once again better choice.

And as you already said your self Rihmz is playing hunter now days since enha shaman just didn't bring any unique buff and other melees were doing better dps so that pretty much answers why no enha either.

So in short, shaman is pretty damn bad class atm. Some ppl may think otherwise but if you play at top and wanna min max to the max. Fewer shamans = better raid comp

http://www.paragon.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1575
01/20/2011 8:22 PMPosted by Dethstryk
Paragon is from Korea no?

Well as you may or may not be aware, Koreans do not play games for fun, they play for masochism.

(This is purely a generalization, as many many MANY acts of "gaming-masochism" have occurred in Korea, and I imagine that Paragon is one of them)


Where's your evidence? It is true that there is indeed a huge Starcraft following in Korea, but you shouldn't get the impression that they're neglecting their lives or something to play a game. Extremities such as the stories that make the news are as rare an occurence as they are in the US.
I don't think blizzard expected anyone to get to Sinestra this fast. Or they just planned on using the world first guilds to beta test the content.

Either way, probably no one in this thread including me will be seeing Sinestra at least for a few weeks so I don't see what the fuss is about.
01/20/2011 8:25 PMPosted by Crinx
Not only were they trying to learn the mechanics and develop strategies, but we were watching closely, hotfixing several different issues as they stumbled across them. This meant they had to adapt to the changes we were making on the spot in addition to figuring out how to kill her -- and she's definitely no pushover.


I feel like Blizzard should have a QA team for this sort of thing.

People show how little they know when they make comments like these. There are always problems that will slip by constant in-house testing. Everyone plays differently. Having in house QA doesn't mean everyone are robots that will find everything wrong with it just because they're paid to find bugs, though we may feel like robots by the end of the day.

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