Holy pally nerf, bad way to fix a bad problem

Paladin
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Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)

* Divine Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.
* Flash of Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.
* Holy Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.

I will be less inclined to play my pally after the patch if this happens, you have heard it here first. I am just gearing and every fight I go OOM. Just because you observe top raid level healing and notice holy pallies are leading the healing charts in top raiding guilds that raid consistently, does not mean you should necessarily nerf the pallies but BUFF the other classes such as Shamans and druids to become more desirable healers. I think the focus should be on the process and not the full geared up end result.

Also there was a comment made by a blue at some point (I can't find it exactly) saying that if anything, things will only get easier from here on in cataclysm as dev's have admitted to design mistakes and intend on improving. There have also been several posts on healing nerfs in regards to the challenges of healing from their perspective.

Also for the record, I utilize all of my cooldowns on boss fights and still get by barely, on some fights not so much which shows the difference in fight mechanics can make all the difference, such as the Alchemist in SFK compared to the Ripsnarl fight where your dps cannot take down the adds quick enough.

Any thoughts pally community?
(And I don't care if you call me bad or say you suck as a holy pally because its so easy blah blah blah, im an average player and an average raider. Im not pro.)
Personally i dont think this will be much of a problem in heroics, i'm finishing most heroic pulls with close to full mana.

In raiding im not to sure, im pushed to the very limit of my mana in raids.

Remember we are getting a buff to Divine Plea, so we will just have to wait and see how this plays out.
I don't like this change either. It is pretty easy to go out of mana as a healer.

As holy I have close to 0 dps, at least let me heal. Thats what I bring to the instances and occasional bg's.

All i have is 4 healing spells and a judgement for mana which doesn't even have much range. I can't give someone a shield or HoT. I guess I have BofProtection which is cool to save casters from melee mobs, but thats very situational.

I have less than half of utility that druids/shamans/priests bring. Maybe if they made this change somehow be less of a burden on people with less gear would be nice. I don't know how it is at 85, but at 67 it gets pretty mana intensive at times.
Blizzard hired new devs with no brains and I'm sorry, that's the truth.

Healers are in high demand now. A good chunk don't want to play them anymore and now this?

This game has gone increasingly downhill since Activision took over is all I can say. They hired nothing but Brad McQuaid-style, "I'm going to make a game that NO ONE will wanna play and tell everyone how great it is when they whine."

WoW is turning into a major failure, just like Everquest. Never seen so many changes to a spellbook since Sony didn't have a clue. You would think one would learn from that type of mentality.

And the idiot who made flash of light an emergency spell should be fired and never go near an MMOG again.
01/24/2011 6:50 PMPosted by Roreld
Cata is the nerf expansion.


They tested the waters with the feral druid nerfs.. Now they are going to start on the other classes.

Ghostwalker has said he wants to make the game more challenging. Bliz can only think of 2 things..

1. Money, and how to make people reroll so that they give them more money.
2. The best way to balance is to nerf. and nerf hard.


Ghostwalker should have thought of that during beta, not after release. The fact that they can't get their crap together and don't know wtf they are doing anymore is evidenced in the major patch changes.

The last thing you do when you're short of healers and tanks is nerf that class. It's a no-brainer.

If this is their way of trying to get everyone to subscribe to Diablo III, where everyone knows the original devs went to, they can forget it.

What a shame watching a hit MMOG turn around and commit suicide... on purpose.
I personally don't see this being a very big issue. Here's my reasoning:


In Heroics...:

Trash pulls: The only time I have mana concerns is when a stupid tank refuses to make a huge pull with CC. This happens frequently. I really think most people have absolutely no clue how hard it is to heal the first pull in Lost City or HoO no matter how well geared your tank is if you use no CC. Is it doable. Yes it is. And with smokin hot dps, it isn't too much of a drain on mana that I'd have to stop and drink. But I definitely don't feel like most people know how taxing it is to keep up with those heals from a mana perspective.

Boss fights: Most (not all though) boss fights don't require me to pop any cooldowns besides my trinket. And there are many boss fights that I can end with 75% or more mana. Granted, some boss fights aren't taxing at all on the healer in my opinion (Like Erudax if you have other team members who know the mechanics). If I'm going oom or close to it, then 9 times out of 10 it's the fault of the execution. Not the mechanics of the boss or the paladin class. Now there are some bosses that are being tweaked and even a couple that I think are going to become much harder because of this, but I think it'll be ok.

Beyond doing Baradin's Hold, I don't consider myself much of a raider. Even though I'm going to be doing raids, I don't consider myself proficient enough to comment on how this is going to affect paladin raiding.

I haven't played on the PTR with these changes, nor do I intend to. But I don't think this is a doom and gloom situation. Do I think it'll be felt? Yes, but to an almost negligible degree. I doubt I'm going to find myself going oom and think "if only they hadn't changed the mana costs!" I'm willing to bet, I'm still blaming the execution.
The OP gems haste. Really though dude, you have no business healing heroics yet. I sure did not feel comfortable healing them when I still had 333 and below pieces on. And WHY are you gemming HASTE??? Let me guess, things get a little rough, you pop every CD, spam DL and you go OOM, right? Get better gear, learn a better healing style, and THEN heal some heroics. Just being realistic.I very rarely go OOM. Reforging Crit for haste and mastery isn't good either. No meta gem??? I really am just trying to be helpful.
But what I am saying is the pally should not be the one suffering because of the execution and this just makes it that much harder to do. Out of combat regen is fine, but like you pointed out Donaven, there are some fights that are more demanding than others and I think this will make enough of a difference, and still - what about buffing other classes such as shamans?

And I gem haste because Holy light, divine light casting times are fairly slow without it even after judging, I try to utilize all my spells as suggested. Plus it should not matter necessarily what I am gemming in terms of haste, crit, intel, and spirit because all are applicable to healing. If I was holy and gemming strength that would be an issue. And I pop my CD's throughout the fight not all at once unless its a boss that demands massive amount of healing at a certain point such as an enrage. And I just got that headpiece an hour ago - give me a break IM GEARING, and if you can't run heroics in mostly 333's then how can you manage to get decent gear when normal dungeons drop even lower level items, at least on heroic you know they are all 346 item level.
ERM, get your faction rep up? There's 3, 359 pieces for ya. Get an ELEMENTIUM STORMSHIELD made, there's another. Get your other pieces patiently with a few 346 pieces from Justice Points....then gem intellect unless you need a couple yellows for your meta, or the big slot bonus like I have on my helm....faction enchants....I mean really, look at my gear and wow head, and wow heroes, and so on if you need some pointers. I'm not "pro" either, I'm just resourceful. I didn't step into a heroic until I had the Stormshield, three epics and was gemmed and enchanted properly. I followed a similar methodology in LK and it worked then too. Be a little more patient, get the better gear and THEN see how heroics are. Even if the latest nerf goes live, it won't affect my mana, I guarantee that. Look at what spells you use too. Get advice from other paladins if you need pointers there. I had to totally re learn healing and such when Cata hit just like everyone else did. I did all the stuff I"m saying here.
I hope Titan has a healing/support class. Looks like everyone is going to either play that or diablo 3.
01/24/2011 7:26 PMPosted by Paladominus
ERM, get your faction rep up? There's 3, 359 pieces for ya. Get an ELEMENTIUM STORMSHIELD made, there's another. Get your other pieces patiently with a few 346 pieces from Justice Points....then gem intellect unless you need a couple yellows for your meta, or the big slot bonus like I have on my helm....faction enchants....I mean really, look at my gear and wow head, and wow heroes, and so on if you need some pointers. I'm not "pro" either, I'm just resourceful. I didn't step into a heroic until I had the Stormshield, three epics and was gemmed and enchanted properly. I followed a similar methodology in LK and it worked then too. Be a little more patient, get the better gear and THEN see how heroics are. Even if the latest nerf goes live, it won't affect my mana, I guarantee that. Look at what spells you use too. Get advice from other paladins if you need pointers there. I had to totally re learn healing and such when Cata hit just like everyone else did. I did all the stuff I"m saying here.


You should NOT need epics or be super overgeared to run a heroic, i am saying simply there is more balancing to be done and that i disagree with this solution. I should not have to concern myself with my class mechanics by doing in depth research on my class spec outside of what blizzard provides fully. Remember this is on a much broader scale. And for the record you are proving my point. This should be about PROCESS not the end result. Like I said I am gearing. You run heroics to get gear, it is not end game content, here lies exactly what it is I am trying to get at. Remember class changes do not occur on several levels such as you never going OOM in several epics as opposed to me going OOM in blues almost half of them 346 item level, as they apply to all paladins, well geared or gearing or not geared at all.
Instead of nerfing our numbers they nerfed our mana. It will work out alright in the end, no one is going to bench any paladins and we're still going to be fine healers. Clearly we're a bit too strong at the moment and this may have been the easiest fix.
I feel bad for newer paladins that don't have gear trying to heal PUG heroics.
I bet you'd go OOM less if you had a Meta gem.
01/24/2011 8:04 PMPosted by Sacrilegious
I bet you'd go OOM less if you had a Meta gem.


Probably but, - This is bigger than me, try to understand that, as hard as it may be. I have already justified everything I need to justify about my current capacity of progression, I am talking about the bigger picture.
I understand gearing can be harder for some than others, especially casual players. So no one should really give other people crap for taking longer to gear up than others.

However everything the OP is saying is stuff that has been said 8 billion times before, at least.

Blizz buffs and nerfs classes based on how they want them to perform. If Paladin heals are OP and Shaman heals suck, buffing shamans and every other healer to be the same as Pallys doesn't make it balanced, it makes everyone OP.

Blizz has always been most concerned about balance at end level content. As most players are level capped that will never change.

The nerf will not kill pally healers or anyone else.

People have been saying WoW is dead and everyone is going to start playing X next month forever.

In other words this thread is LoLz.
01/24/2011 8:21 PMPosted by Thoragord


Blizz buffs and nerfs classes based on how they want them to perform. If Paladin heals are OP and Shaman heals suck, buffing shamans and every other healer to be the same as Pallys doesn't make it balanced, it makes everyone OP.


But not by Blizzard's standards if they are expecting classes to perform on the same basis in terms of the notion as they described about healers not wasting mana uselessly and vice versa not buffing them enough to deal with content.

And yes this is stuff that has been said before but I have not seen much on the process of gearing besides "you should run normals more". They are moving to end game content balancing before there are other issues that should be addressed is what I am getting at. There will always be guilds that are hardcore that will get world or realm firsts regardless. But its not an accurate way to measure progression. The whole reason I was describing my Mana difficulties was to show that things are tough enough for some of us like you said. This does not help, and so on and so forth.

And thanks for at least contributing to the conversation to some degree rather than post a one line comment that does not even address the subject matter.
01/24/2011 8:16 PMPosted by Toxcat
I bet you'd go OOM less if you had a Meta gem.


Probably but, - This is bigger than me, try to understand that, as hard as it may be. I have already justified everything I need to justify about my current capacity of progression, I am talking about the bigger picture.


Gemming and enchanting gear correctly has nothing to do with "progression".

I haven't had any mana problems that weren't intended for my gear/content level. I can't speak to raids (neither can you), but this change will be perfectly fine in Heroics. Your unwillingness to gem correctly or enchant your gear is no one's fault but your own.
first of all - not all helms have meta gems - even 333 item level headpiece's that are crafted or dropped, second of all your gauging me on a meta gem slot I have not filled just because I got the helm and hour and a half ago and have not done it yet. The enchants I can understand, but it still has everything to do with progression whether you think so or not. Don't deviate from the subject matter which isn't about me like I said in my original post. Feel free to collect other instances and testimonials from players having the same trouble as I, if its that vague for you to identify.

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