Blizzard and Communication (RE:2200 Weapons)

Arenas
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Sometimes, you have to make an unpopular decision, and you take a lot of heat for it. I understand that you guys aren't happy, and I'm sorry about that.

With regard to the weapon delay, as with any change which affects your gameplay, we always prefer to provide advance notice whenever possible, but in some situations it isn't an option. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases.

Some of you may recall that there were times in the past when it was common for the Arenas to be flooded by geared raiders actively engaging in arena matches exclusively to acquire weapons for the sake of defeating PvE content. That's not the intended design for arena rewards (that they be part of PvE progression), and that was a situation that we were hoping to avoid now. Raid content is very challenging currently, and as a direct result, there are fewer top tier weapons floating around. What we didn't want was a 'gold rush' on arenas, which would diffuse the competitive space there as well as give PvE focused players an undue advantage for raid content.

Ultimately, what we really want is parity in the availability of top end PvP and PvE weaponry. We want to see top end PvP and PvE items filtering into the player community at roughly the same time. This delay is an effort to achieve that aforementioned parity in this case.


But this is preposterous! We are talking about weapons requiring 2200 rating, and achieving such a rating is NO easy feat, raiders were literally farming it back then because it had NO RATING REQUIREMENT!

Fewer top tier weapons floating around? There would be few floating around regardless of this change! The majority of the playerbase cant even get to 2200, what are you thinking?
Really, the only solution I can see that won't completely screw one side or the other is, as many others have suggested, to make PvP epics unusable in raids, and PvE epics unusable in arenas/RBGs. Granted, this hoses the people who want to do one, and use the other as an easier route to getting starter gear, but since that's exactly the behavior Blizz wants to stop it seems like a perfect change.

Of course, they'll never do that. Instead, expect changes that screw PvPers as thoroughly and vigorously as possible. BOHICA =\

I say all of this as someone who will probably never see a 2200 weapon either. I feel bad for all of those who could, and are just sitting on points. But Blizz's ominous declaration of having "some plans to help avoid similar situations in the future" is troubling for us casual PvPers (bads) as well. Given the past, casual and high end players alike can expect a thorough reaming in the name of saving the dainty dragon slayers from being "forced" into PvPz.
I think I'd be pleasantly surprised if everyone in my guild was capable of hitting 2200.

It also doesn't help most of the weapons drop off the end wing bosses - heroic nef/cho'gall won't be accessible to 99% of the guilds unless there are some very serious PVE nerfs.
01/25/2011 12:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri

You will get a negative reaction with your decision to delay 2200 arena weapons.
You will get a negative overreaction with your decision not to communicate with us about it.
But then again, you probably already knew that.


Sometimes, you have to make an unpopular decision, and you take a lot of heat for it. I understand that you guys aren't happy, and I'm sorry about that.

With regard to the weapon delay, as with any change which affects your gameplay, we always prefer to provide advance notice whenever possible, but in some situations it isn't an option. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases.

Some of you may recall that there were times in the past when it was common for the Arenas to be flooded by geared raiders actively engaging in arena matches exclusively to acquire weapons for the sake of defeating PvE content. That's not the intended design for arena rewards (that they be part of PvE progression), and that was a situation that we were hoping to avoid now. Raid content is very challenging currently, and as a direct result, there are fewer top tier weapons floating around. What we didn't want was a 'gold rush' on arenas, which would diffuse the competitive space there as well as give PvE focused players an undue advantage for raid content.

Ultimately, what we really want is parity in the availability of top end PvP and PvE weaponry. We want to see top end PvP and PvE items filtering into the player community at roughly the same time. This delay is an effort to achieve that aforementioned parity in this case.


Pretty sad the game is going down this path.....the argument to me doesn't hold much ground. Those who enjoy arena will already be doing it, and those who don't....aren't. Sure, if they feel they NEED to do arena to get better weapons earlier they might choose to do arena.....doesn't mean they'll actually be good enough to get 2200 rating though to get these weapons. It seems just a slap in the face of arena players more than anything....something that's happened a lot in recent times.

01/25/2011 12:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri

You will get a negative reaction with your decision to delay 2200 arena weapons.
You will get a negative overreaction with your decision not to communicate with us about it.
But then again, you probably already knew that.


Sometimes, you have to make an unpopular decision, and you take a lot of heat for it. I understand that you guys aren't happy, and I'm sorry about that.

With regard to the weapon delay, as with any change which affects your gameplay, we always prefer to provide advance notice whenever possible, but in some situations it isn't an option. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases.

Some of you may recall that there were times in the past when it was common for the Arenas to be flooded by geared raiders actively engaging in arena matches exclusively to acquire weapons for the sake of defeating PvE content. That's not the intended design for arena rewards (that they be part of PvE progression), and that was a situation that we were hoping to avoid now. Raid content is very challenging currently, and as a direct result, there are fewer top tier weapons floating around. What we didn't want was a 'gold rush' on arenas, which would diffuse the competitive space there as well as give PvE focused players an undue advantage for raid content.

Ultimately, what we really want is parity in the availability of top end PvP and PvE weaponry. We want to see top end PvP and PvE items filtering into the player community at roughly the same time. This delay is an effort to achieve that aforementioned parity in this case.


So, in the weeks leading up to Jan 25th, the development team really had no way of comparing how many players have reached 2200+ and how many have reached heroic level content, and then make a reasonable guess at how many more would be added to each subset of players between then and now? That's the reason why we received no warning? I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Unless you really had higher expectations for PvE guilds in that short amount of time, for the number of heroic kills to skyrocket, then there is nothing that would have suggested that things were going to even out by the 25th (note: I only know the number of heroic kills because of sites like WoWProgress, but I'm going to go out on a limb and though I can't say the same for the PvPers, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have accurate numbers for who has 2200+, otherwise we wouldn't be where we are right now).

On the second point, yes, I remember the times you're referring to. I used to be one of the people you were referring. My raid leader back in BC suggested that we all arena for 1850 weapons, because they had great stats and were suitable until we could get equivalent raid upgrades from SSC/TK/BT/Hyjal. And back then, unless you were running a then OP comp, you had to know what you were doing in arenas. It wasn't nearly as easy as you are making it out to be, but 1850 was doable back then, for sure.

What you seem to be ignoring is the flipside: PvEers who get OP gear to use in PvP. Surely you remember how many rogues that were running around with Warglavies in BC. Or maybe the Valanyrs and Shadowmournes in Wrath (heck, let's not forget about Solaces, DVs, DBWs, and other great items that were easy accessible by your average raiders). Are you trying to tell us that PvEers didn't have the edge in these situations?

Even if I am disappointed in development's decision withhold weapons further, that's not why I'm upset. I'm upset because you haven't given us one good reason as to why this makes any sense or why this is fair to those who only PvP. That, and the fact that you tried to sell us some BS in the other thread. "Well, we can't give you weapons today, but at least you still have other 2200 items you can buy." Thanks, these recolored epics really take a load off my mind. (Yeah, you edited it out, but we haven't forgotten).

TL;DR- You could have told us sooner. You didn't. You could have made a better case for your decision that didn't gloss over the fact that PvE items have always been an issue in arenas. You didn't. If you're truly sorry for how upset we are, you can start by treating us with a little more respect.
Idea: PvP weapons do 50% less damage to PvE carebear monstrarz

fixt
This is ridiculous in so many ways, especially dumping it on us with out notice. Why not just !@@*ing
- Disable T2 from raids.
-Disable raid gear from arena
That is if you have the funding to create a development to team good enough to tackle such a task. You still can use heroic dungeon gear and T1s to start out PvP and raiding but stop blatantly OP #*#@ from further imbalancing arena and from making raid progression easier.

Or continue disgracing pvp to new levels.
Yay I have less of a reason to log on, now my pvp rating doesn't even matter because pve suddenly has such an impact on pvp. The decent Pvers remain rewarded for their raids yet the decent pvpers get stuff taken away due to the massive fail pve playerbase as if those same bad players can reach 2200.................JKSPECFERAL
01/25/2011 12:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri

You will get a negative reaction with your decision to delay 2200 arena weapons.
You will get a negative overreaction with your decision not to communicate with us about it.
But then again, you probably already knew that.


Sometimes, you have to make an unpopular decision, and you take a lot of heat for it. I understand that you guys aren't happy, and I'm sorry about that.

With regard to the weapon delay, as with any change which affects your gameplay, we always prefer to provide advance notice whenever possible, but in some situations it isn't an option. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases.

Some of you may recall that there were times in the past when it was common for the Arenas to be flooded by geared raiders actively engaging in arena matches exclusively to acquire weapons for the sake of defeating PvE content. That's not the intended design for arena rewards (that they be part of PvE progression), and that was a situation that we were hoping to avoid now. Raid content is very challenging currently, and as a direct result, there are fewer top tier weapons floating around. What we didn't want was a 'gold rush' on arenas, which would diffuse the competitive space there as well as give PvE focused players an undue advantage for raid content.

Ultimately, what we really want is parity in the availability of top end PvP and PvE weaponry. We want to see top end PvP and PvE items filtering into the player community at roughly the same time. This delay is an effort to achieve that aforementioned parity in this case.


So in short 6 years of pve to pvp is ok but, a few weeks of pvp for pve isn't.
I'd have 0 problem with this if they offered to freeze my account and stop my payments until a date where T2 weapons are availabl and PvP Arena resumes.

They put the game on hold for us, but still take our money...


No, you pay that money voluntarily for access to the game. What you get out of it is entirely up to you. Millions of people pay the same rate as you and I pay each month while playing only 1-2 hours a week.

You're not being robbed: you're being childish.
To enjoy this game I have to wait for other people to clear content I don't enjoy?

BTW, where the hell was the blue post at the start of Wrath stating that they would prohibit Kel'Thuzad from dropping any weapons until people started hitting 2200? Oh wait that's right, there wasn't. Because it's OK to cater to PvE players just because they can't clear content fast enough, or rather because you made the PvP system too easy.

Why can't THIS line ever be said: "We of course don’t want players who are pursuing PvP content to feel as though they must engage in heavy PvE to obtain these weapons in order to be competitive or successful."??

Why in the HELL do you have this double standard??
01/25/2011 3:30 PMPosted by Stormspellz


Sometimes, you have to make an unpopular decision, and you take a lot of heat for it. I understand that you guys aren't happy, and I'm sorry about that.

With regard to the weapon delay, as with any change which affects your gameplay, we always prefer to provide advance notice whenever possible, but in some situations it isn't an option. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases.

Some of you may recall that there were times in the past when it was common for the Arenas to be flooded by geared raiders actively engaging in arena matches exclusively to acquire weapons for the sake of defeating PvE content. That's not the intended design for arena rewards (that they be part of PvE progression), and that was a situation that we were hoping to avoid now. Raid content is very challenging currently, and as a direct result, there are fewer top tier weapons floating around. What we didn't want was a 'gold rush' on arenas, which would diffuse the competitive space there as well as give PvE focused players an undue advantage for raid content.

Ultimately, what we really want is parity in the availability of top end PvP and PvE weaponry. We want to see top end PvP and PvE items filtering into the player community at roughly the same time. This delay is an effort to achieve that aforementioned parity in this case.


So in short 6 years of pve to pvp is ok but, a few weeks of pvp for pve isn't.
Just disable PVE gear above 359 from being used in arenas/rated BGs.
guys, rated bgs are the problem! so easy to get rating it's ridiculous, a lot of ppl who have rated bg ratings of over 2.2k dont even have a 1k arena team, thats what happens when you have a broken rated bg system

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