[The Conqueror/Justicar] grind. Overlooked?

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They removed it from Battlemaster, sure I'm disappointed about that since I got them both at the same time. If it was still required for Battlemaster, I could see them nerfing it, but right now, it's a grind that's for the determined person.

And no, I didn't play Vanilla.
I hate that I missed the boat on turn ins way back when. I'm still kicking myself for not getting exalted with WSG and AB while it was EASY.


The Insane was a joke compared to these grinds.
02/10/2011 9:18 AMPosted by Foxfyr
I'm still kicking myself for not getting exalted with WSG and AB while it was EASY.


It wasn't easy back in the day. On my server Alliance simply dominated Arathi Basin during Vanilla. Non-Helmet-Groups would win maybe 1/5 games on top of 30 minute queues. It took forever then, too.
I agree with the OP. Very well-put and well thought-out.
Agree with the OP.

current state of the achievement, The Conqueror

Here's how I see it:

With 42,000 total rep required for exalted, that's 1200 total flag turns ins. If my statistics are to be believed, I've won 38/133 WSG matches, and averaged roughly 1.5 flags per game. At my present rate it would take a total of 800 games to reach exalted. Assuming each game averages 15 minutes, that's a little over 8 days /played of warsong gulch tor each exalted.

When I see that number...8 days /played of WSG...I can easily say it's just not worth that much time for me to get Justicar. Now, I'm ok with there being achievements that are too much time investment for me personally to be willing to get. Is 8 days /played an amount of time we think is reasonable for it to take to get exalted with one single faction?

If you can honestly answer that with a yes, then so be it. Personally, I think it's excessive.

So how much time /played of WSG do you think is reasonable tor each exalted?
I think 200 wins would be perfectly reasonable. That way you don't just get it as a side consolation in your grind for Battlemaster.


I have the Insane title. Did you hear? They nerfed the insane title. You're not helping your case with this particular example.

Well goddammit, blizz loves to listen to them crybabies.


And you seem to be the kind that should be playing Everquest, since you're all for useless and totally pointless grinds, when everything around has evolved.
See, that part i don't agree with.
There is nothing wrong with having some well designed grinds that take a while.
The 100,000/250,000 HK achievements/Titles are fine (though adding a third title at 50,000 kills would probably be a good idea).
The Insane is a far less interesting title without requiring Shen'dralar. They should have just made boss kills in Dire Maul grant Shen'dralar reputation roughly commensurate in time spent to the time the grind took the old way.
The issue is the current developers don't seem to understand how to design a grind that isn't either gated, mind numbing, too simple and trivial to be interesting, or all of the above (see: the Argent Tournament), so they think all grinds are a horrible idea.

The problem with the PVP rep grinds is that they were never meant to be this way.
AB and WSG reps were never meant to take this long.
AV rep was supposed to take much longer.
As a result, the whole grind just feels wrong in a way not even Bloodsail exalted did (granted, that's mostly because the possibility to reach exalted with the Bloodsail was the result of a database error or something like that rather than something that was broken in a patch).

To fix this, the time it takes to get exalted with the AV faction needs to be increased and the time it takes to get exalted with the WSG and AB factions needs to be radically decreased, bringing all three into line with the way they were originally designed.
The achievement says "I love to PvP on this toon, I LOVE to BG on this toon"

WSG is the most personal BG from 10-85, a BG where 1 player can severly influence the battle.

I leveled the entire stretch from 15-80 in mainly WSG, some AB and an occasional random.

The mountain is there, climb it, prove it. And have some satsifaction that you worked for it.

Have some realistic expectations of what you can and cannot achieve in the time frame you have. I dont understand the expectation that a game, a competition should be bent to your desires. It is how it is, and has been for quite awhile. To change this would cheapen the achievement, this climb for all who did it as it is now.
Again, the PVP reps are not the OMGILOVEPVPSOMUCHIWANTTOMARRYIT!111!!1! achievements, that is what the HK achievements are for, and they fill that role wonderfully.
The AB and WSG factions were never meant to take this long to grind to exalted, and i wouldn't be surprised if, even now, a large percentage of the total people with the Conqueror/Justicar title did the majority of the work either pre-2.0.1 or as a twink.
And this makes it's current state, of no value to you.

I think 200 wins would be perfectly reasonable.

Ok. 200 wins would be 600 flags instead of 1200. So by your numbers, the current rep gain per flag is half what you think would be reasonable.

So double it to 70 per flag?

I think 200 wins would be perfectly reasonable.

Ok. 200 wins would be 600 flags instead of 1200. So by your numbers, the current rep gain per flag is half what you think would be reasonable.

So double it to 70 per flag?


I hadn't really done the math, but per my suggestion I'd rather they award reputation post battle equivalent to a 3 mark turn-in.
02/10/2011 11:55 PMPosted by Sanitary
Don't worry about the title, I'm sure it will be taken away soon anyway.


What does this have to do with this conversation? Nothing. Only to say that you are butthurt (sorry for the expression) about being sub-50 reputations.

On that regard: Only two reps to go for you. go for it.
Don't worry about the title, I'm sure it will be taken away soon anyway.


What does this have to do with this conversation? Nothing. Only to say that you are butthurt (sorry for the expression) about being sub-50 reputations.

On that regard: Only two reps to go for you. go for it.


I think it does have some relevance. Even though it is some butthurt, its true that allowing the PVP rep actually grindable would enable 2 reputations to be done toward exalted again. For instance, my Druid: Hawtkat, had the exalted title until it was stripped and if the pvp reps were obtainable through medium difficulty then I would be able to achieve the exalted title again, through the pvp rep and the remaining rep in Cata (note: I switched mains for this expac)

But also, with the changes in pvp and class balancing(if you would call it that), it always sparks an interest for people to pvp, not just veteran pvpers but novice players as well. All in All, the rep grind shouldn't be as difficult as it is now. The only rep that's practically as difficult as pvp rep to achieve is guild rep, due to the rep cap each week.

Changing the rep, would light a spark for those players who pve that want to start pvping and would expand the pvp aspect of this game, which is what Blizzard wants right?(IMO of course, this is the common opinion of people's argument for class changes in this patch) Also, it would encourage group pvp, either among strangers, guildies, friends, etc and could increase the competitive atmosphere if only slightly.

Edit: apologies for any typos or grammatical errors, staying up to late to try and gear my druid.
You could place down your guild standard by the flag cap! Totally a way to up your rep! (I actually don't even know if this works.)
I feel like WSG rep is a little extreme. I appreciate that this is an achievement that's completely optional and designed to prove your dedication yet this still seems like a bit too much. As the game has evolved adding additional BGs, specifically queuing to farm rep is a grind in itself.

Since you get 0 rep in a shutout loss, you can sometimes spend close to an hour (queue time + max duration of the match) getting nothing. I don't want any major handouts but something as simple as 1 point of rep every 5 minutes your team holds the flag would at least make those 0-0 or 0-1 turtle matches easier to swallow. In AB, you can at least have something to show for a hard fought loss. WSG's reputation system feels so binary, either you cap or you don't get anything. QQ

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