[GUIDE] Subtlety Rogue (PVP)

Rogue
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03/16/2011 12:35 AMPosted by Zjuicy
Question, would spell penetration help with poison damage?

Yes, but poison damage doesn't matter much for sub so it is not worth gearing for.

Also, @ OP, you might want to bump in moderation since (in my humble opinion) it is slightly unprofessional to have an entire page worth of them. I think this is a good guide, but either let others post as a bump, or else at least wait until it drops a few pages before you bump it.
Updated guide, added macro list and fixed multiple errors.
Thanks for the post. It's given me a little more incentive to finish leveling my rogue.
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Bump so the OP doesnt have to continue bumping so much lol
This guide actually helped me a lot. On a normal server where all i do is Que for PvP and random BG's, this was a very good guide. thanks man. Requested for sticky.
Bump, almost at the bottom of the second page already =(
Also looking for any suggestions as to what i can add to my guide, as well as any questions related to Sub PvP/PvP in general.
Prime Glyphs:
Glyph of Shadow Dance, Glyph of Backstab, Glyph of Hemorrhage

Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Garrote, Glyph of Preparation, Glyph of Blind


I personally use glyph of SnD for major, since it helps my overall sustained damage. That said, ShD would be much better for burst, which might make it better over-all. Still, I might mention SnD.

As for minor, I would strongly suggest using Glyph of Gouge. Since sub is mainly about control, being able to use Gouge whenever is very useful, especially considering you want to be behind your target for backstab and your bleeds don't break it. SS->Gouge is a pretty nice combo for quick control, and if I need to run I will often strafe away after. Using SS on, say, a warrior, can be pretty nice for fleeing in general, since they will likely not know where you are for a bit.

edit: Expose armor might also be worth mentioning. I use it instead of Eviscerate unless I am about to potentially score a kill and need the instant damage. If running with another melee, it gets even better. Of course, if there is another player who can put up the debuff said person should, since EA is a finisher and all others just cost GCDs.
Prime Glyphs:
Glyph of Shadow Dance, Glyph of Backstab, Glyph of Hemorrhage

Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Garrote, Glyph of Preparation, Glyph of Blind


I personally use glyph of SnD for major, since it helps my overall sustained damage. That said, ShD would be much better for burst, which might make it better over-all. Still, I might mention SnD.

As for minor, I would strongly suggest using Glyph of Gouge. Since sub is mainly about control, being able to use Gouge whenever is very useful, especially considering you want to be behind your target for backstab and your bleeds don't break it. SS->Gouge is a pretty nice combo for quick control, and if I need to run I will often strafe away after. Using SS on, say, a warrior, can be pretty nice for fleeing in general, since they will likely not know where you are for a bit.

edit: Expose armor might also be worth mentioning. I use it instead of Eviscerate unless I am about to potentially score a kill and need the instant damage. If running with another melee, it gets even better. Of course, if there is another player who can put up the debuff said person should, since EA is a finisher and all others just cost GCDs.


SnD is a Prime so it's just not worth 2 seconds longer on ShadowDance (About 2 Ambushes) being able to use Backstab more often or a 1 minute bleed on a Rogue that also procs +10% damage without having to waste combo points on Rupture.

Same deal with Gouge, its a Major not a Minor, So it's not worth either an additional 1.5 seconds of Garrote silence, an additional Kick, Smoke Bomb and Dismantle or being able to Blind a target that has your dots on them.
SnD is a Prime so it's just not worth 2 seconds longer on ShadowDance (About 2 Ambushes)

SnD glyph allows the use of an extra finisher instead of refreshing it, but it is true it probably is worse than ShD in general.

03/23/2011 2:18 PMPosted by Ømén
Same deal with Gouge, its a Major not a Minor, So it's not worth either an additional 1.5 seconds of Garrote silence, an additional Kick, Smoke Bomb and Dismantle or being able to Blind a target that has your dots on them.

I personally would put it over glyph of prem. Do you really use all of those abilities? And, while that gives some survivability, I would argue that being able to use gouge consistently would yield far more.
03/23/2011 2:34 PMPosted by Haileaus
SnD is a Prime so it's just not worth 2 seconds longer on ShadowDance (About 2 Ambushes)

SnD glyph allows the use of an extra finisher instead of refreshing it, but it is true it probably is worse than ShD in general.

03/23/2011 2:18 PMPosted by Ømén
Same deal with Gouge, its a Major not a Minor, So it's not worth either an additional 1.5 seconds of Garrote silence, an additional Kick, Smoke Bomb and Dismantle or being able to Blind a target that has your dots on them.

I personally would put it over glyph of prem. Do you really use all of those abilities? And, while that gives some survivability, I would argue that being able to use gouge consistently would yield far more.


Glyph of Preparation Is definitely the most important Major glyph there is, it gives 2 Smoke Bombs which by itself is enough to pick up this glyph alone. Glyph of Preparation is a key attribute to why people pick Sub, say you manage to set a target up for a kill but they are resilient to use their trinket, being able to Smoke Bomb once while their healer is CC'd will guarantee a trinket and being able to Prep a new Smoke Bomb after setting up another CC chain on the healer will ensure a kill.

Double Kick on a healer is pretty much GG when you can rotate around Gouge/Garrote/Kidney Shot etc.

2 Dismantle's on separate targets can pretty much put a melee cleave to rest if you include Vanish->Cheap Shot->Gouge on one and Redirect Kidney Shot on another along with the use of Blind->Sap.

Sub gets most of its value from being able to control a field then use CD's to set up a kill with teammates with the use of ShadowDance.
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Liked this guild. Need some new tricks for PvP.
I'm hovering around 3k resil and 29% crit. Is there a resil target number I should be gemming for? Just gem as much as possible? Balance it out? With 4.1 changes to resil, what's going to happen?

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