Patch 4.1/4.2 Content

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Another thing:

Our goal with each major patch release, and especially with each expansion, is to learn from the past and use that knowledge to improve the game as we move forward. One of our biggest regrets in the pacing of Wrath of the Lich King was the Crusaders' Coliseum. The Trial of the Champion 10- and 25-player raid was released while many raiders were still busy with Ulduar, which meant a premature end to Ulduar raiding -- and a lot of players didn't get a chance to experience all of Ulduar's content during the normal expansion progression.

Having learned that lesson in pacing from Wrath of the Lich King, we don’t feel Cataclysm needs a new raid tier just yet. We’re close, though, and Firelands will be part of patch 4.2, which is expected to hit the PTR very soon after 4.1 goes live.


The entire raiding base shifted from Ulduar for ToC for a simple reason: the latter was both much easier and gave much better gear. Naturally, players followed the path of least resistance.

If Firelands is actually a step up in difficulty, and if it's tuned around the (currently) best gear, only the most progressed would shift to it, no? That many are still progressing through T11 wouldn't really be a problem; they'd simply continue progressing through T11. It's okay that they're "not ready," isn't it? That's progression.

Or is it that, as a result of the system in place, T11 would become obsolete with the release of a new raid, because that system throws people to the latest tier?

Or is it that you guys believe one group of people being a tier ahead of another group of people is such a negative prospect that you're willing to delay Firelands entirely?

I suppose what I'm getting at is this: what's your vision for the path of progression? I find it somewhat worrisome that you're directly applying the lessons you learned from ToC to this particular situation, as if ToC wasn't a uniquely horrible idea.
Still waiting for someone with more than 0 cataclysm raids cleared to complain.
If Blizzard gated T11 like they should've, this would be moot and no one would mind the wait for T12. I won't buy another expansion without gating, as the rush was just horribly unfun, and not something I can ever go through again. I hope the next expansion ships with gating.

That said, delaying T12 makes sense. I just think it's treating a symptom not the disease, and the disease was not gating.


Right now I can't imagine the wait for 4.2 being less than 5 months (two months for 4.1 is what I read, then I assume at least a period of time longer than between now and 4.1 as the interval between 4.1 and 4.2 - so I get a five month minimum)... so I feel I'll probably take two or three months as a break. Maybe it'd be good for me. Tho if a lot of other people are like me it may not be great for the game.


It's safe to say most people are not where you are. If a good chunk of the population were close to clearing all the content, then the raid would not be getting pushed back.

The two month estimate for 4.1 was based on the assumption that the new raid was going to be a part of that. This greatly reduces the amount of time 4.1 will be on the PTR. I'd be willing to guess that we're looking at a month tops before 4.1 is live.


Well, I wouldn't put myself anywhere ahead of being an average raider in an average casual raiding guild (that's set enough to have a raiding team and regular raid nights). My guild is about middle/lower middle for progression on my server mainly because we took a long time to get the ball rolling (didn't get a baseline geared group until patch 4.06) and only have done two hours a night twice a week so far. I feel we'll get to 12/12 in about four to six weeks, then maybe down H Halfus and maybe another one or two heroic bosses within six to eight weeks.

I feel that's pretty average at least for groups actually doing this stuff and getting anywhere. If you are doing this stuff and moving at a significantly slower rate than we are I'd say that time probably isn't the issue - giving these groups extra weeks or months to 'catch up' might not solve the problem. Maybe groups simply can't do this level of difficulty. Maybe they are discouraged by it - discouraged by wiping over and over and over again. Maybe the only thing that Blizzard can do to make sure a greater number of groups cross the finish line is to nerf the content.

And nerfing the content without giving people another tier to work on probably isn't the way to please regular raiders, casual/casual-moderate/all the way to hardcores. They'll have nothing to except old content, old content that's been trivialized - well, that and a couple of heroics (big deal). These hardcore/moderate/longterm casual raiders are probably a large portion of blizzards core subscriber base - the real long term players. I personally don't think the way to treat a large portion of your best customers and expect to retain them is to give them nothing (well, nothing they want) and expect them to pay for it just because they will be getting something in the future.
03/03/2011 7:15 PMPosted by Casdon
Still waiting for someone with more than 0 cataclysm raids cleared to complain.


A lot of people with content cleared have complained? I feel like I am responding to a troll though.
03/03/2011 7:16 PMPosted by Orcstress
YOU obviously haven't armoried everyone who has complained. I am 12/12 (Normal and some heroics). I don't care about heroic content. I raid for the lore and to see the raids themselves. Though I agree with you that ppl who aren't 12/12 probably should not be complaining, I also think people shouldn't make bold statements that can't back up. :p


OK congrats, you may move to Chapter 2, since you read all of Chapter 1 unlike everyone else :P


I'm 9/12 and will be 12/12 in the coming weeks, before 4.1 comes out most likely and I will not be able to go to chapter 2 because Chapter 2 has not been given to me yet. What is wrong with people being ahead of others? Its like the School systems now. No player left behind. We're going to cater to the lowest common denominator who is STILL pulling 5k DPS in Heroics.
Yap. Time to quit the game. Quote me blizz fanboys and say goodbye. This is completely stupid. BEYOND stupid actually, so because six thousand guilds haven't killed Sinestra we are not "prepared" to take on a new raid tier? Using that as an excuse they force feed us re-cycled content in the form of two five mans? Five mans, which, I won't be running (no real point if you get your VP cap from doing raids herp derp). I don't understand the rationality, it must go something like this.

Dev. 1 - "Hey guys, so players have been clearing normal modes frequently over and over again with little trouble. Game is getting stale even after a "cataclysm" and people are leaving faster than ever before. What should we do?"

Dev. 2 - "Hm... oh! I know! Let's not release any fresh content and instead we should just put out two five mans, call it a patch, maybe make some patch tweaks and BAM! People will flock back!"

Dev. 1 - "Brilliant! We've done it again!"

Just another day at Blizzard HQ, ruining the fun of a game for everyone. I could see if patch 4.1 was coming out soon but TWO MONTHS? I have to wait two months in order to wait another few months for 4.2? What is this I don't even....
On the subject of Valor -> JP, I believe it stated that it would change on the next raid tier.
Seeing as that won't be until Firelands, which is not 4.1, I would ASSUME, the conversion will not happen.

Correct. The conversion from Valor to Justice Points, as well as the release of the next Arena season, won't happen until the release of 4.2.


It's a toast with a different taste, get over it.


Says the person that hasn't played it on PTR.. *rolls eye* Have you even see the videos on ptr...it looks like the same toast to me. OMG it's in different wrapping.


Yes, Yes I have, and the poison labyrith boss is bloody brilliant.

Have you seen it? Perhaps not.
As a side note, will we even get a new BH boss, or does that have to wait for a new Arena season (which will or will not be delayed?)?
Yap. Time to quit the game. Quote me blizz fanboys and say goodbye. This is completely stupid. BEYOND stupid actually, so because six thousand guilds haven't killed Sinestra we are not "prepared" to take on a new raid tier? Using that as an excuse they force feed us re-cycled content in the form of two five mans? Five mans, which, I won't be running (no real point if you get your VP cap from doing raids herp derp). I don't understand the rationality, it must go something like this.

Dev. 1 - "Hey guys, so players have been clearing normal modes frequently over and over again with little trouble. Game is getting stale even after a "cataclysm" and people are leaving faster than ever before. What should we do?"

Dev. 2 - "Hm... oh! I know! Let's not release any fresh content and instead we should just put out two five mans, call it a patch, maybe make some patch tweaks and BAM! People will flock back!"

Dev. 1 - "Brilliant! We've done it again!"

Just another day at Blizzard HQ, ruining the fun of a game for everyone. I could see if patch 4.1 was coming out soon but TWO MONTHS? I have to wait two months in order to wait another few months for 4.2? What is this I don't even....


He can't kill Al'Akir. He thinks he's ready for the next tier. R o f l.
03/03/2011 5:53 PMPosted by Bashiok
One of our biggest regrets in the pacing of Wrath of the Lich King was the Crusaders' Coliseum.

It means a lot to me that you admit this
Yap. Time to quit the game. Quote me blizz fanboys and say goodbye. This is completely stupid. BEYOND stupid actually, so because six thousand guilds haven't killed Sinestra we are not "prepared" to take on a new raid tier? Using that as an excuse they force feed us re-cycled content in the form of two five mans? Five mans, which, I won't be running (no real point if you get your VP cap from doing raids herp derp). I don't understand the rationality, it must go something like this.

Dev. 1 - "Hey guys, so players have been clearing normal modes frequently over and over again with little trouble. Game is getting stale even after a "cataclysm" and people are leaving faster than ever before. What should we do?"

Dev. 2 - "Hm... oh! I know! Let's not release any fresh content and instead we should just put out two five mans, call it a patch, maybe make some patch tweaks and BAM! People will flock back!"

Dev. 1 - "Brilliant! We've done it again!"

Just another day at Blizzard HQ, ruining the fun of a game for everyone. I could see if patch 4.1 was coming out soon but TWO MONTHS? I have to wait two months in order to wait another few months for 4.2? What is this I don't even....


He can't kill Al'Akir. He thinks he's ready for the next tier. R o f l.


I love how you think this is the only character I have.

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