Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide 7.0.3

Paladin
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Heard someone say that Resistance Aura was best used against casters, my question is, if all casters are suppose to get 195 spell pen, then isn't it pretty wasted, and if there's a melee with them, wouldn't devot or ret aura be better?
05/02/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Xate
Heard someone say that Resistance Aura was best used against casters, my question is, if all casters are suppose to get 195 spell pen, then isn't it pretty wasted, and if there's a melee with them, wouldn't devot or ret aura be better?

If you're ret, Resistance Aura does next to nothing for you and your team.

Devo is your best bet if there's a melee around, but even then it's not that great. Warriors, ferals, and rogues easily bypass armor effects with abilities and bleeds. Effects like Recuperate passively outheal Ret Aura damage so that's not much better. Depending on your comp/enemy team, you might be better off using Conc Aura.

Basically all of our auras are negligible lol.
Hey guys, question. What is a viable comp for a ret in an RBG? at least to be competitive to some extent.
You didn't even think about debating if seal of truth should be used as one of the prime glyphs, why not?
^ Because we gain 20 exp from our gear alone with minor reforging. This spares up the glyph socket for 10% additional judgement dmg.
im not usually one who sides with the guy thats lv6 but im going to have to agree.. with magebabelol druid yes can build points faster but if we come vs a frost mage 60% of the time its over. ever since they took shapeshifting out of roots out for druids we have been useless vs a frost mage. where as paladins get BOF, granted it can be stolen by a good player but not always. other classes dont get any sort of oh sheet button so they can full heal or an instant full heal do they? i mean saying paladins are underpowered is like saying a disc priest is underpowered. it all depends who is playing the toon and what the gear is like. if you are a great player is vicious gear you can still do relativly well mind you not 2200+ well but at least 1500.. if your a baddie with decent gear your not gunna do well because your slow and dont know when to use what. but thats just my 2 cents worth.
When is the best time to use Inquisition? I keep running into situations where i need to just blow up the target i'm on and I don't get a second to use Inquisition. I see he says rotation doesn't matter in the guide but should the first few HP be used for the dmg boost?
It's good to keep Inquisition up in PVP but it's easier said than done. You rarely have HP to spare in fast paced fights between your limited time in melee range and your limited chances to heal.

That being said, it's highly recommended that you use Inq during major cooldowns at least. That's when it will count the most. Outside of cooldowns, the choice is up to you. Obviously more damage is better, but Inq is passive damage and you may not be in melee range for long. Spend your resources according to the circumstances.

05/18/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Pånda
im not usually one who sides with the guy thats lv6 but im going to have to agree.. with magebabelol druid yes can build points faster but if we come vs a frost mage 60% of the time its over. ever since they took shapeshifting out of roots out for druids we have been useless vs a frost mage. where as paladins get BOF, granted it can be stolen by a good player but not always. other classes dont get any sort of oh sheet button so they can full heal or an instant full heal do they? i mean saying paladins are underpowered is like saying a disc priest is underpowered. it all depends who is playing the toon and what the gear is like. if you are a great player is vicious gear you can still do relativly well mind you not 2200+ well but at least 1500.. if your a baddie with decent gear your not gunna do well because your slow and dont know when to use what. but thats just my 2 cents worth.

Spellstealing HoF has nothing to do with skill.

Every class has "oh sheet" buttons and some form of reactive or passive healing. Paladins cannot use LoH in arena and Selfless Healer is only potent on allies in specific circumstances.

Vanguards is referring to ret being underpowered in terms of other melee specs and in terms of composition availability. Compared to other melee we are the easiest to control and the easiest to shut down. We also do not have a snare, which is required for melee in PVP. For this reason our comps in arena are very limited and we have almost no representation at all in high rated RBGs.
Is expertise an absolutely useless stat? Do I reforge out if it everywhere?
i found this plenty helpful... gud post van... :)
04/05/2011 11:00 PMPosted by Rikü
Has anyone else had problems with their divine protection? I was facing a warlock/rogue 2s team and had to bubble, my bubble activated, cd started, but no bubble. I died because my bubble did not protect me when i tried to FoL. Can anyone tell me if a rogue or warlock can dispel divine protection?


i usually just do random bgs on my lock so im not certain, but i believe that a lock with a felpuppy could dispell it. and hand of protection doesnt stop magic damage i believe just physical so the lock could still chew right through it i think anyways.
06/27/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Arlass
Has anyone else had problems with their divine protection? I was facing a warlock/rogue 2s team and had to bubble, my bubble activated, cd started, but no bubble. I died because my bubble did not protect me when i tried to FoL. Can anyone tell me if a rogue or warlock can dispel divine protection?


i usually just do random bgs on my lock so im not certain, but i believe that a lock with a felpuppy could dispell it. and hand of protection doesnt stop magic damage i believe just physical so the lock could still chew right through it i think anyways.


Felhound can dispel Hand of Protection and other magical effects. Divine Protection is undispellable.
Thought I'd throw in my two cents...

Been playing a retribution paladin since the start of Wrath and I wish I'd played one since the beginning of my WoW time. I've learned a number of things from other players and a number of things from just my own experience of trial-and-error.

People were complaining earlier in this thread about rogues and mages. It's true that they are a hassle to ret paladins (anyone really). A good rogue will save his stuns for when you pop CDs so that their duration bleeds off. Like a spellstealing mage, you have to assume you'll get only a couple ticks out of your wings or zealotry. Plan for that. With a rogue, the trick is to essentially outheal them. (Some of those posts were made during 4.1 when our WoG was nerfed; before Selfless Healer restored it to a 10-sec CD at least. Back then, I was getting pwned by everything and out-healed by Fury Warriors. We were absolutely worthless. That was a dark time in our lives. lol)

Frost mages used to be our bane, but I've learned the trick on how to deal with them -- this is assuming you've got your CDs for them. That may not be the case in an Arena if you have to use CDs dealing with his partner. But in a duel situation, frost mages can be toasted. And this is because their freezes are predictable. The mage will be Deep Freeze you. You will be tempted to pop your trinket. Don't. Bubble. Bubble and run that sombeeotch down. Build HP while bubbled. If he blinks to get away, Repent/HoJ to catch up. When your bubble is done, he'll reset his CDs and Deep Freeze you again. Now pop your trinket and keep his slows off you. He'll either have to stop and cast Frost Bolt to do any real damage (and thus you can hit him) or he'll have to try and kite with wimpy un-synced Ice Lances. Don't be afraid to Holy Wrath his ice elemental, if you glyphed for HW.

The only two classes/specs I've been having any trouble with lately are fire mages (who knew) and marksman hunters.

Fire mages have an obnoxious Fire Blast stun that procs a heckuva lot more often than the stated 10% of the time (they really need to nerf that junk; make it work like the Arcane talent for the post-polymorph stun effect -- a short IGCD). The record is 5 times in a row; the average is 3 times. That's not mathematically impossible, but it IS mathematically and highly improbable, suggesting the stated percentile is false. Also, since they can cast Scorch (which does moderate, not low, damage -- 10-15k on 5000 Resilience) while moving, they can easily kite you while casting almost no other spells (save to light you up with their fire DOTs). Quite frankly, if your computer isn't super-dee-dooper, you will be easily kited by any class, but fire mages most of all. As soon as you finally get close, bamf. Dragon's Breath. It's bad enough that they reduced CS to leghump range way back in WotLK. I get tired of being close enough to share interdimensional space and cause a temporal rift in the space-time continuum with my opponent, and yet having the game tell me I'm out of range for Crusader Strike. (Cuz I don't have a super-dee-dooper gaming computer.)

Marksmen hunters are pretty much a hard counter to ANY melee these days because they basically have a perpetual Concussive Shot (they spec to make Chimera Shot proc a daze effect, and so can pretty much keep any melee constantly slowed). Interspersed with timely Silencing Shots, even a ret paladin with self-Cleanse and HoF can be kept out of their dead zone and the hunter darned near untouchable. And even if you get close enough, they can Deterrence away from you, pop Readiness, and do it all over again. I find myself looking for cover and beating on their pet to at least get some HP.

We wreck any other hunter though.

I haven't had any trouble with warlocks. They do a lot of damage, to be sure, but they are still as squishy as mages, and less given to kiting. They basically tend to stand there and try and take the damage, teleporting away (to a fixed and therefore predictable location) when they get hammered. Their pet is CCable. Their fears, while obnoxious, are also predictable. Don't trinket out of the short one. Wait for Howl, which usually follows. Locks are only dangerous to ret if they have a partner that can peel you off them, which presumably they will have in Arena. So hopefully your partner's good, too. :)

The key to my post though is that, for rets, Divine Shield is now CC mitigation. A bonus escape/trinket, if you will. I thought I'd point this out since it hadn't been mentioned. No longer can you bubblehearth or even really and effectively bubbleheal. Your bubble is best used early and offensively, at least against heavy damage/CC classes like mages, marksman hunters, and rogues (maybe not Combat rogues). Of course, in an Arena setting, there's a good chance your opponents will have a warrior or priest to dispel it. Oh well.
If he blinks to get away, Repent/HoJ to catch up. When your bubble is done, he'll reset his CDs and Deep Freeze you again.


Oh, and if he Ice Blocks when you bubble, beat on his water elemental for HP. I actually did something similar with my rogue once, it was glorious. The mage had just popped Mirror Image and then realized he was getting hammered, so popped his Ice Block in panic. While invulnerable, I beat on an image to build 5 combo points, then popped Redirect and transferred them to the mage when his Ice Block fell off, and fed him a 5-point Eviscerate. That was funny. To me at least. I don't think he shared the sentiment.
I have most problems with Sub Rogues and Blood/UH DK's. Mostly because of gear level, but I am also just bad at Ret. I have played a Holy/Prot Pally since I made my original one in BC. Love the class and am enjoying Ret now that I have some decent macros and counters set up for tough classes like them or Godlike Fire Mages (I don't count Mages as a tough fight anymore. Not much of a fight against God's.) Thanks for the guide Vanguards. Very in depth and informative. Own da gaimzes and keep the live streams rolling! Love watching you guys beastmode stuff!
07/25/2012 06:08 PMPosted by Jymbîc
I have most problems with Sub Rogues and Blood/UH DK's


A properly played and well-geared Subtlety rogue is dangerous to anyone.

Blood DKs, now that they nerfed Vengeance, are pretty much kittens. But you have to play it right. This is true of any PvP match (or anything really). Don't dance to other people's music. Make your own and make them dance to yours. So, when it comes to Blood DKs, taking them head on is suicidal. They'll just Deathstrike you to dust because pretty much that's all they've got. But it's enough if you let them. Stay out of melee range; use your wings for HoW and Judge, dash back in for a quick beat down when you HoJ (when they're down low in health). This strategy takes longer, but they'll barely do any damage to you and certainly won't be healing themselves half as much.

Unholy DKs are tougher, because they're essentially ret paladins without as many heals, but they do more damage and can and will stifle -your- heals because they realize they have more strikes than Deathstrike (like Necrotic). lol. So, I recommend going all out. Hold nothing back. Pop everything. It's a straight dps race. Most Unholy will go head-on with you, so your Zealotry won't be wasted. Save your HoJ til he gets low in health so you can finish him off before he considers popping self-heals like Death Pact, et al (a general truism in most fights actually).

As a general PvP tip, it's well-advised to experiment and play every class and spec there is. I'm still working on that myself. But once you're familiar with the other classes, you can optimize your skill with your favorite. You know exactly what your opponents are capable of and can strategize accordingly.
My buddy plays a ret pally - what's are the better classes to partner with a ret in 2v2 arena? Top 5?
07/28/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Zoology
My buddy plays a ret pally - what's are the better classes to partner with a ret in 2v2 arena? Top 5?


dk
priest
hunter
shaman
rogue
Sorry to ask, there a good spec so i can use Divine storm with ret?

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