Heroic Halls of Origination

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I don't see why so many people want to make the bosses all mandatory. Actually, I think I do. It's most likely petty vengeance against those they feel who slighted them by forcing them to skip them in the past. Or perhaps a general sense of amusement at seeing other upset by a change (a sentiment I admit to sharing on occasion.)

As has already been mentioned in this thread, there is a simple solution that would make nearly everyone happy. Add a checkbox to the LFD interface for whether or not you wish to do optional bosses and group people accordingly.

If the change people in this thread keep championing goes through, I'll be one of those who simply drops whenever HoO comes up. More than once I've left without warning as soon as I see the group running toward Ptah. If they're doing him, they're probably going to want to do all the bosses, and I rarely feel that's worth the effort.
took me over a month to get the damn dps ring because groups kept skipping the boss i needed. id either get saved to a group that wouldn't answer me when asked if we could do one optional or leave party instantly and re q myself wasting hours at a time just to avoid getting saved

Find like-minded people and do your own run if you want full clears. I'm not against doing it and I have certain "priviledges" (being a tank if I'm going for a full clear and you pout and rage, i'll leave and get another instant-queue with a group that does). That being said, if 3 out of 5 want a quick run (my own opinion being "whatever"), I would rather ruin the day for one of them, not the other 2.

Seriously, how hard is it to type "/1 LFM HoO heroic full clear pst ?



the same can be said for tanks wanting easy valor. they have a much easier time re qing back up and finishing a quick clear then leaving dps/healers saved for the day or stuck qing up for another hour on top of the deserter buff.

not everyone is just there for your easy valor people actually need gear sometimes.
anymore if i get groups that want full clears and a tank tries to tell the group no i vote kick the tank so he can find a better suited group for himself.

seriously how hard is it for a tank to say "/LFM daily heroic quick valor run instant q"
03/15/2011 11:28 AMPosted by Towelen
Seriously, how hard is it to type "/1 LFM HoO heroic full clear pst ?


I usually have to offer to do it several times before someone responds.
Tanks queues random
Tank finds HOO
Tank says "afk kick me"
Tank gets kicked
Tank requeues
03/15/2011 11:28 AMPosted by Towelen
not everyone is just there for your easy valor people actually need gear sometimes.

And not everyone is queuing to gear up through boss drops. Clearly we have two different groups using LFD for two different reasons. The answer, I believe, is compromise, and I believe a majority vote is the best way to solve the issue.
Perhaps upon zoning in to an instance with "optional bosses" there could be a box that pops up:

<Instance> contains <#> optional boss<es>.
Please vote on which ones you would like to attempt:
~<Optional Boss 1>
~<Optional Boss 2>
~<Optional Boss 3>
~None of the Above

And then require at least 1 attempt per boss that was majority voted on to get the points for the instance.

Of course there would be people that (just to be an ahole) would intentially wipe the 1st attempt just to peeve people off... but dbags will be dbags... It might at least put some structure into these "optional" bosses.
After the disasters that were Halls of Stone and Old Kingdom, I am frankly surprised that there is still such a thing as 'optional' bosses. EVERY SINGLE TIME I would run Old Kingdom on my tank, and nearly every time I healed the place, at least one person would get their heroic achievement. Roughly 30% of the time, it was EVERY group member aside from me. I'm not going to try and pull any statistics out of my rear, but that means that the majority of groups were bypassing free loot/badges (so that they could get out of the dungeon faster and stand around in Dalaran complaining about how bored they were).

...why are there still 'optional' bosses at all? It's not like it's impossible to block off the final boss until everything else is dead.
03/15/2011 12:30 PMPosted by Sshadowwind
...why are there still 'optional' bosses at all? It's not like it's impossible to block off the final boss until everything else is dead.


Because often as not, people don't need the loot, and optional bosses have always been a feature.

For reference, this is what started the grand tradition of skipping bosses: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091223103742/wowwiki/images/thumb/e/e3/Blackrock_Depths_bosses.jpg/830px-Blackrock_Depths_bosses.jpg
Majority of the group wanted to skip to the end for VP. I don't see the problem.
03/15/2011 11:55 AMPosted by Kurnea
not everyone is just there for your easy valor people actually need gear sometimes.

And not everyone is queuing to gear up through boss drops. Clearly we have two different groups using LFD for two different reasons. The answer, I believe, is compromise, and I believe a majority vote is the best way to solve the issue.


one of the issues with halls specifically is the NUMBER of optional bosses in the instance. there are 4 total with only 2 that you even need to do (not counting the mini bosses since they go down so easy) . it causes a lot of issues when you have people qing needing gear still.

id agree and have mentioned before that adding a fliter in the lfd tool for people looking for full clears would make this issue so much easier then the current trial and error of joining groups that do not want the same.

even if it increased your cue it would still be better then getting saved or waiting an hour to get "no we dont want to"
Because so many people complained about this in Wrath, they made a 7 boss dungeon where 4 of them are optional. Thanks Blizzard!
03/15/2011 12:40 PMPosted by Towelen
even if it increased your cue it would still be better then getting saved or waiting an hour to get "no we dont want to"


See, if you bring it up at the beginning of an instance that you need to do optional bosses, you can handle it all out before getting saved or wasting an hour in the dungeon.

Say 4 people want to do a boss and one person refuses. Well, that person can drop group if he wants. And the reverse applies, if 4 people want to skip and one person doesn't, that person can immediately leave and avoid being saved.
03/15/2011 12:45 PMPosted by Kurnea
even if it increased your cue it would still be better then getting saved or waiting an hour to get "no we dont want to"


See, if you bring it up at the beginning of an instance that you need to do optional bosses, you can handle it all out before getting saved or wasting an hour in the dungeon.

Say 4 people want to do a boss and one person refuses. Well, that person can drop group if he wants. And the reverse applies, if 4 people want to skip and one person doesn't, that person can immediately leave and avoid being saved.


the problem (with it the way it is currently) is even if you do bring it up. it goes one of two ways

1: nobody speaks.
2: tank complains and the rest of the group goes along with it

trust me i drop as soon as i get into instance when i get 1 or 2
and now im left with deserter and another almost hour and a half long q time just because i decided to q in the first place. repeat that about 3 times over and there goes the night wasted doing nothing.

if you have a tank that only wants to do vp run and everyone else doesnt your tank will simply tell you to f off and drop or attempt to kick him if you dont like it.
03/15/2011 12:52 PMPosted by Towelen
if you have a tank that only wants to do vp run and everyone else doesnt your tank will simply tell you to f off and drop or attempt to kick him if you dont like it.


And a tank that wants to do a boss that nobody else wants to has the same ability to hold the group hostage until the optional boss is dead. It works both ways.
Tthis is my 2nd post on this topic , as a player of 2 rogues who needs the only thrown drop from the only boss in the entire game. I ask right at beginning of instance "can we please do amanae,I need his drop" if i dont get a positive reply(meaning yes) to the question.I assume that i was ignored or no one cared to reply, so i drop group to eat a 30 minute debuff and start process all over again. fun times!!!!
Then i'll make more clear...arena points had always been in WoW, badges had all been in WoW, the old Orgrimmar was a apart of WoW, yet all of that was taken out with the come of cataclysm. Nothing is set in stone and if you want me to farm a substitute for the equivalent of Blood of Isiset please tell me where to get one, cause the spirit granted from this trinket is nothing short of amazing for a healer.

I should make this clear: i am not here to argue over my own group not wanting to do the bosses, i am here to argue the fact that every group i run into doesn't want to do these bosses, about 95% of groups i run into have people who just want to skip to rajh. I can get a guild group if i wanted too, but i don't want too -- i like playing solitary. There are people who need gear off these bosses and i doubt i'm the only one who has argued this in the past.



First - there is a better trinket from the last boss of stonecore. I believe there are actually a few trinkets better than Blood of Isiset.

Second - You have said many times that you like being a solitary player. There are many things you can do without stepping into instances altogether. There are many quests and daily you can do. No one is making you go into dungeons at all.

Third - When you click the "LFD" button, you are saying "I don't want to play by myself and would like to play with four other players". Why not just make a group so instead of a "95%" chance of missing the boss you want to kill, you then have a 0% chance of missing said boss?


Thanks for advice in advance --- but i should mention the fact that the "tear of blood" trinket you are referring too is one of two BiS trinkets pre-raid for holy priests last i checked...the other was the trinket i was bringing up, Blood of Isiset.

Second: what is the point of playing this game if i can't have fun playing in instances like the rest of you? just cause people don't want to waste their time killing bosses cause "they don't have too"?

Third: This has been said and said...this isn't about me wanting to make a group, this is about only having to do than less than half of an instance, where some bosses are REQUIRED by certain classes that i won't name (rogues) cause there are no other optional available upgrades for said class...i should mention the fact that i thank the person who mentioned that on page one, i did not know that about the rogues lack of availability of rogue thrown weapons.



03/15/2011 12:56 PMPosted by Kurnea
if you have a tank that only wants to do vp run and everyone else doesnt your tank will simply tell you to f off and drop or attempt to kick him if you dont like it.


And a tank that wants to do a boss that nobody else wants to has the same ability to hold the group hostage until the optional boss is dead. It works both ways.


Firstly....kudos to you for arguing with me for so long, you very very sneaky pally with your sneaky sneaky words you! You are right, majority does rule.

Secondly, Tanks are hard to come by, dps have to sometimes wait 40 minutes to get a queue...and then have a tank leave? at times that's a terrible wait times (i've seen upwards of 30 min wait times, luckily i was with a guildie who made it bearably by snorting pot and then making weird noises through my vent to keep me awake).

Lastly, my argument here is not about majority rules i've said this...it's about only having to do half of a dungeon, 3 out of the 7 bosses are required. That in itself is ridiculous cause so many of the other bosses have nice drops...if i wanted to just get gear from rep (like i do by using a tabard to farm the rep while in dungeons) and if rep was easier, i wouldn't be complaining about said instance. People are gibbed cause people are selfish, and i told you in a previous post that i asked the group that led to this post if they would kill Isiset, they all went silent and that was my fault (look at previous post i believe it has all the details on it).
I will skip anything I can unless someone speaks up and asks politely. Nobody ever speaks up in a nice manner. They just run along after me and hit what they are told to or complain about how they are missing JP and say wtf a lot. Just ask your tank. I don't mind taking 2 mins to kill a boss someone else needs unless I'm running my daily on my lunchbreak.
bumpzorz

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