Frost PvE Guide (5.4)

Death Knight
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So i must be lost in reforging. I'm looking up a lot of DKs who are a lot more progressed and I can't seem to find set values that they are going for when using sites like Askmrrobot or wowreforge.. Does anyone have a Template? Someone check me out tell me what i can do. I think my DPS is pretty good for my ilevel here are to nights logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-e4y0a73y7gwsvhe9/
What is the general opinion of frost dps right now? I play an elemental shaman and have decided to switch back to my DK because of the ability to solo old content that others may not be able to and just wondered what I could expect to see in terms of dps/damage in LFR (Not the normal herp derp player. Just dont have time for raiding). I noticed on raidbots.com that the average dps for frost DKs is surprisingly low, but wondering if this is just due to the average "weekend warrior" rolling into LFR and derpin their way around.

Any thoughts on the state of frost dps?
Frost is quiet fine, and it reflects that on raidbots.
Great post T

One thing that you may want to look into changing for how 2H and DW handle KM proc's differently

04/05/2011 07:15 AMPosted by Taruun
if you wait more than a second or so to use it on the "right" ability instead of the ability you can currently use, you'll start losing DPS, because you don't do more damage by not doing damage.


Getting as many obliterates to crit as possible.
With average values of mastery, obliterate will hit about twice as hard as frost strike. It will also crit twice as hard. For this reason, "wasting" killing machine procs on frost strikes is more harmful to your damage then ever before.
Interestingly, when you are not wasting any resources by using the above methods, and the boss isn't about to die in 5 seconds or less, you actually lose no damage by holding runes, or runic, or procs. If it allows you to increase your crit rate on obliterate, it is a damage gain.

Getting obliterate to crit as often as possible involves sitting on runes. Simply don't spend them unless you are about to lose a resource, via over-capping, or tier 5 talents, or you have killing machine procs.
The oposite treatment for frost strike is to never use frost strike when killing machine is up, even if you have the runic for it. Only use frost strike when you are about to overcap runic, or you don't have killing machine

How long is it worth waiting?
There are two cases where waiting can be a damage gain.

With enough runes to obliterate, but no KM:
Assuming you have not wasted any resources, there is no penalty for waiting. You lose absolutely nothing, no runic overcapping, no T5 procs wasted, no rimes overridden, no km wasted, and no runes stop regening. The ~30k dmg boost from waiting is a 100% gain. Wait as long as you can without wasted resources.

With KM, but not enough runes to obliterate:
Every second you wait, there is a chance that KM is overridden. So how long is it worth waiting before the override renders waiting not worth it?
KM has 6 ppm, and fully raid buffed most dks have around 50% haste. That's 9 actual ppm, or .15 pps. Therefore, every 6.666 seconds, on average, you will get one KM proc. If FS gets an x boost of damage from KM, obliterate gets about 2x. Therefore, with average luck, waiting the full 6.666 seconds makes you break even, whereas waiting less becomes a bigger gain the less time you wait, assuming you get KM to actually proc. This is also assuming you continue to not allow the other resources to overcap.

This comes right from Advanced Frost Priority Tactics on EJ not my own work but I have tested it

Another thing that I found invaluable and yet few people actually do it, is get a swing timer like Quartz if your not already running one. I run it with everything disabled except the swing timer. You'd be surprised at how many KM proc's you waste over the course of an encounter because your dumping RP with Frost strikes and let on off just as you white swing and proc a KM. with a swing timer you can hold off on a FS until after you auto attack and then Oblit if KM proc's or drop 3 FS bombs before you white swing again.
I just read that entire "advanced priorities" thread and thought it over. Mendenbarr is right that it doesn't make intuitive sense: the benefit of a KM Obliterate over a KM Frost Strike would have to be weighed against the lost DPS (and it is lost DPS) of not attacking for those few seconds, and thus missing out on the attacks you could have fit within that window, plus the additional Tier 75 procs, Rime procs, and potential for further lost KM procs. (The idea that you can wait 6 2/3 seconds and break even, even if you assume your own haste values are identical, doesn't make sense to me, because KM does not occur on a set schedule. Half the time, you will be getting a KM proc before then, and it would be overridden. You'd have to factor that into the DPS you'd lose by waiting, which means the true break-even point would be shorter than a full six seconds. I think.)

...Add to that the fact that this is a guide for beginners. :) Before you worry about the impact of timing KM, you need to make sure that you're following the right priority, using Horn of Winter rotationally, all that jazz. EJ is out there for those readers who want to seek more advanced information.

Of course, it's always possible that I have misunderstood something, and this is a DPS gain even at lower gear and skill levels. If so, and I can see more evidence to show that, I'll change the guide.
This may be in here somewhere but I don't have time to read 24 pages. How exactly do you begin your rotation (2H)? Currently I do something like prepull army, pot, then immediately upon pull death's advance/outbreak as I run in, single obliterate, pillar of frost/raise dead together, obliterate, and then go from there. But maybe I should do pillar/ghoul before any obliterates? I haven't played frost long so advice would be appreciated.
12/07/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Gorfion
This may be in here somewhere but I don't have time to read 24 pages. How exactly do you begin your rotation (2H)? Currently I do something like prepull army, pot, then immediately upon pull death's advance/outbreak as I run in, single obliterate, pillar of frost/raise dead together, obliterate, and then go from there. But maybe I should do pillar/ghoul before any obliterates? I haven't played frost long so advice would be appreciated.


Pretty much do this

AoTD Before the pull > Pre-pot > PoF Macro > Outbreak

Then do your single target rotation.
Been reading through the guide and it hasn't been stated outright. As dual wield frost, when do I Obliterate? I have read when I have two Unholy runes or one Unholy and one Frost.

Does KM have to be procced?

Also, why can't I macro Plague Leech and Outbreak?

Any help would be appreciated!!

Thanks,
As DW Frost, you want to AVOID using KM with Obliterate. Try to use it on Frost Strike whenever possible.

And you should only be using Obliterate when you have two Unholy runes. Does the guide imply something different? If so, please let me know so I can change it.
12/15/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Taruun
As DW Frost, you want to AVOID using KM with Obliterate. Try to use it on Frost Strike whenever possible


12/15/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Taruun
And you should only be using Obliterate when you have two Unholy runes


Cool, thanks.

12/15/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Taruun
Does the guide imply something different? If so, please let me know so I can change it.


No it doesn't. I read a lot of different resources. EJ, Noxxic, Icy Veins and others. I think I saw it somewhere this morning which confused me as I was pretty sure it was two Unholy.

Thanks!!
Hey Taruun, I wondered if you could possibly help me with something.

First off, great guide on the front page there. I've been doing the "rounds" so to speak on the interwebs trying to soak in all the DW Frost knowledge I possibly can, cuz I just made the switch from 2h (I've been stuck with the Scarlet Halls Axe since Week 2...me and my guild are killing Heroic Heart of Fear bosses, four now...and Blizz has YET to drop me anything resembling a decent epic 2h weapon, in LFR or otherwise). I read on EJ in fine print on their Frost DPS thread that it's viable to go Haste > Mastery > Crit for dual wield. I'm really hesitant to do this, as it really does not make sense, considering you're basically negating not only Frost's Mastery itself, but also Threat of Thassarian dipping into said Mastery.

That said, I do have my 4 pc., and more Obliterates wouldn't HURT per se...but damn if it's not 4.3 anymore, and Obliterate hits like a wet noodle with 1h'ers in proportion to what it used to back in Heroic DS. I wondered if you have any opinion/feedback one way or another about my situation. I mean, if a 2h drops for me, I'm probably gonna go back to that style since I know it like the back of my hand as it is now...and tbh, I prefer to stack up Haste and just watch those 200k Oblits roll in (with help from Quartz's swing meter!). Anyway, holla back. :)
If you want to go haste over mastery as DW, you certainly can. You'll then switch to a priority that resembles the 2H one, and use Obliterate instead of Howling Blast (still prioritizing Frost Strike over that). It will be a DPS loss, but only a slight one. You'll still use KM on Frost Strike, of course.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried any of this myself, so take it with a grain of salt and always compare it with your own parses and data.
At least as DW the haste just helps to generate procs and regen my runes. I could only see someone really needing to do such a thing if every last piece of their gear was expertise/hit and crit and lacked both Mastery and Haste. Haste's value ends as your globals are generally filled in my opinion. As DW you'll just start to hurt your truly heavy hitting abilities by prioritizing haste over mastery. In my opinion anyway. I can understand the reason of wanting to get more haste just the price can be so high overall.
Very nicely written, easy enough for a new or young player to understand (or fluffy female in my case). Thanks so much!
Late RE: "Advanced priority"

12/06/2012 11:34 PMPosted by Taruun
Of course, it's always possible that I have misunderstood something, and this is a DPS gain even at lower gear and skill levels. If so, and I can see more evidence to show that, I'll change the guide.


You won't need to change your guide.

Keep an eye out for my post on MMO-C regarding this and KM timing in general. I plan to have it up by Saturday night (2012-12-29) at my current pace.
Thanks, Euliat! I look forward to it.
12/27/2012 05:48 PMPosted by Euliat
Keep an eye out for my post on MMO-C regarding this and KM timing in general. I plan to have it up by Saturday night (2012-12-29) at my current pace.


http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1244303-2H-PvE-Frost-Killing-Machine-Do-you-feel-lucky
You're only level 60. Your rune regen is going to feel much slower than it will at max level. Getting your lvl75 rune regen talent will help with this.

EDIT: Ah my bad. Found your 85. It does get better at max level with some gear though.
2H'er question: Stack Strength gems or Haste gems? Does it depend on the gears?

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