Ask the Devs - Answers #5: Achievements

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It's a shame the biggest flaw of ask the devs, is the shear volume of questions. I noticed the threads have a common trend. first 3-4 pages get tons of upvotes and rest of the pages don't. When people are voting on a thread 26 pages is overwhelming so it typically goes to the first questions asked, not really the best ones. It's also sader that at least a third of these questions have already been answered before or are in 4.1 patch notes. What a waste of a lot of good questions that just didn't get attention they deserved. I have no doubt some of the good questions on page 18 or whatever would have won out if they were just on page 2 instead. I was hoping for an answer on the endless mode feat of strength for plants vs zombies myself.

I would like to see a system for voting to be improved somehow. Do forums support randomizing/shuffling post order? ;) If not, perhaps another medium other then forums could be used with voting instead. Some thoughts need to be put in to get more exposer to all the quesitons asked and not just the ones who got them in first.
Q: Will we ever see a change to the Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin exalted achievement /reputation grinds? While normally a fan of time consuming achievements, these two seem to be a tad excessive. Warsong moreso as you can go entire games without gaining any reputation at all. You could in theory lose every AB you ever do, and eventually get exalted at a "reasonable" pace. Perhaps award rep for Flag returns, killing efcs, capping bases, HKs similar to Alteracy Valley, etc. – Idkmybffyata (North America/ANZ), Lunaticheart (Korea)

A: We think those are fine as achievements. They definitely take a huge time commitment, but so do some of the other achievements. And you don’t need to get them for the meta achievements.


I have both achievements. Warsong Gulch is ridiculous-hard, particularly if you're on the side that loses more often than the other. You know how I got mine? I was already 75% through revered when Burning Crusade launched. Burning Crusade removed Marks of Honor turn-in quests, which was a significant supplement to flag-capture reputation.

For those of you who missed it, here's how it worked: When you lost a Warsong Gulch game, you got 1 Mark of Honor. When you won, you got 3. You could turn in 3 Marks for honor points and reputation. Thus, you were guaranteed to get reputation by playing long enough. A turn-in quest gave about as much reputation as 3 flag captures (my memory is a bit foggy here so I could be off). They changed it around a bit (there used to be one quest for turning in 3 "failure" medals and one quest for turning in 1 "victory" medal) but the reputation gain was roughly unchanged until BC.

The system was designed to be supplemented by the Marks of Honor. I bet none of the designers who think it's "fine" leveled up from Neutral to Exalted after Burning Crusade launched.
The system was designed to be supplemented by the Marks of Honor. I bet none of the designers who think it's "fine" leveled up from Neutral to Exalted after Burning Crusade launched.

I agree
It doesn't make sense that you could get "Master of Warsong Gulch" possibly years before reaching exalted with them.
Q: Will we ever see a change to the Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin exalted achievement /reputation grinds? While normally a fan of time consuming achievements, these two seem to be a tad excessive. Warsong moreso as you can go entire games without gaining any reputation at all. You could in theory lose every AB you ever do, and eventually get exalted at a "reasonable" pace. Perhaps award rep for Flag returns, killing efcs, capping bases, HKs similar to Alteracy Valley, etc. – Idkmybffyata (North America/ANZ), Lunaticheart (Korea)

A: We think those are fine as achievements. They definitely take a huge time commitment, but so do some of the other achievements. And you don’t need to get them for the meta achievements.

Depends what metas you're talking about. They certainly are required for The Justicar.

I'm confused as to why WSG at least doesn't reward rep over time. Having it based on flag caps is just cruel.

My old hunter did BGs when the old system was in place when she could turn-in marks for reputation. I played her for maybe 5 months and constantly did turn-ins. Look at her WSG and AB reputations:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/muradin/amahn/reputation/
The Defilers - 2410/12000 - Honored
Warsong Outriders - 16965/21000 - Revered

Now compare to my main, who's run many more since BC (ie. 2007 - 2011 or 4 years), but all after the old system was removed:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/adele/reputation/
Silverwing Sentinels - 4620/6000 - Friendly
The League of Arathor - 2035/12000 - Honored

It's just wrong and frustrating! Why were the turn-ins removed? Why weren't they replaced?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2369681189?page=2#34
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2369681189?page=3#42
The system was designed to be supplemented by the Marks of Honor. I bet none of the designers who think it's "fine" leveled up from Neutral to Exalted after Burning Crusade launched.


And yet most Blood Elves that got it in BC I never heard complain.
I didn't get it til a couple months into BC even though I played a ton during Vanilla, and there were Blood Elves running around with it before me, and when I asked them, they usually said "it wasn't that bad," or "was worth it."
Most people I talk to today that have it and/or are working for it, don't really mind because well, Conquerer sounds awesome and they say it is worth it for the work.

Whether or not the old model was easy, people are still doing it, most not complaining. The only ones I do hear complain are on these forums, not in-game, as most deem the awesome sounding title (Justicar, yuck-Conquerer, woo!) worth it enough, and thoroughly enjoy PvP as is, for what it is. The only complaint I do here is queue times, but that is it.
Q: When will achievements finally be awarded account-wide? – Larosh (Europe [German]), Eneia & Payasos (Europe [Spanish]), Rageudder & Kellgros (Europe [English]), Деадхил (Europe [Russian]), Nyn (North America/ANZ), 기사는아무나 (Korea)

A: Making achievements Battle.net account-wide is something we'd like to do, but it's not a goal we could provide a current timetable for. All of the original World of Warcraft coding was done with the expectation that the data on every realm would always be independent. Now that we are trying to make as many things as possible account-wide, we’re having to rebuild all of those systems. It is absolutely something we want to do, but it will take a lot of time away from other features.


Way to take the biggest question on a lot of people's minds about achievements... and then not even answer the question. Most people would be content with Account-wide on one realm, and the answer turned into technicalities about doing Battle.net-Account-wide achievements... which no one specifically asked about.
04/13/2011 12:58 PMPosted by Slyver
Most people would be content with Account-wide on one realm, and the answer turned into technicalities about doing Battle.net-Account-wide achievements... which no one specifically asked about.


And you are complaining, because they may have accidentally given you a little more information than what was asked, and a feature that provides more?

I see nothing wrong with that or the answer then.
The Warsong and Arathi cheevos are a lot harder on a server that only wins BGs about 10-20% of the time on alliance.
"it wasn't that bad," or "was worth it." is much easier to say if your winning even half the time.

Perhaps that is the root of the problem?
Depends what metas you're talking about. They certainly are required for The Justicar.

We were referring specifically to metas like Master of Arathi Basin. They are on the meta achievements for Justicar and the Conqueror. While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.

Very good points here. I agree with you 100%.
They never seem to think of the ramifications of doing such things that effect PvPers in this way, but they always cater to the thought of the PvE Raiders concerns on there objections to things like this. Having Blood Guard was one of the very few things that separated me differently because I /had/ a special title. Now it is really, nothing.
So why not bring back the mount, AND the title for Naxxramas, as you disrespectfully did to old world PvPers. Just doesn't seem fair to allow it for one aspect of the game, and not the other.


I didn't even know about that (not much of a pvper). That is pretty unfair. I wouldn't mind the titles either myself :P Lich King titles are still available, and they are pretty easy to do now including heroic. I see a lot of players who actually link their achievements with their kill dates and that is what is actually impressive. The titles had their day, but they will forever have that achievement.

I like how there are only two people opposed to the idea in this thread so far while one didn't even state their reasoning, just a flat out no.

I don't see how adding these mounts (and titles) back hurts anyone. It actually benefits a lot more of the playerbase, including players who switched mains. I even bet many of the players who state "no" to this have switched mains and don't even have these mounts or titles and would take their time and actually get these achievements if they were implemented back. And again, they will forever have the achievements with the impressive dates to flaunt to the masses. I wish I did haha.


The Warsong and Arathi cheevos are a lot harder on a server that only wins BGs about 10-20% of the time on alliance.
"it wasn't that bad," or "was worth it." is much easier to say if your winning even half the time.

Perhaps that is the root of the problem?


Perhaps the root of your problem is that you don't have any resilience gear and haven't even achieved the 1000 conquest points achievement yet. Just throwing out ideas.
04/13/2011 01:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.


Is it "okay" with blizzard that it will take literally years for most players to get exalted with WG and AB, but it only takes a few good holiday weekends to get exalted with AV? Why the discrepancy?
Also, I'm having trouble understanding the "cons" of making it even slightly easier to get to exalted with these factions.
I don't see how adding these mounts (and titles) back hurts anyone. It actually benefits a lot more of the playerbase, including players who switched mains. I even bet many of the players who state "no" to this have switched mains and don't even have these mounts or titles and would take their time and actually get these achievements if they were implemented back. And again, they will forever have the achievements with the impressive dates to flaunt to the masses. I wish I did haha.


It doesn't hurt anyone. That is why i find it so silly when somebody tries to argue otherwise.
Incredibly boring.
04/13/2011 01:40 PMPosted by Battlemaster
While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.


Is it "okay" with blizzard that it will take literally years for most players to get exalted with WG and AB, but it only takes a few good holiday weekends to get exalted with AV? Why the discrepancy?
Also, I'm having trouble understanding the "cons" of making it even slightly easier to get to exalted with these factions.


It will also take most people years to obtain "The Bloodthirsty"; does that mean that we should be rewarded with 500 HKs a day for doing our daily battleground?
Also, wsg/ab are fine - you just have to play them a lot.. a hardcore grind will take only weeks. Spread it out. I've done all 3 exalted bgs on 3 different characters, it can't be that bad.
04/13/2011 11:07 AMPosted by Kaneka
You shouldn't be able to get a mount for standing instead of dancing, etc just because you have enough stam to live through it.



KT's iceblock kills someone in 4(?) seconds, if they don't get healed, no matter what you do.

true, you can cheese through most of the fights, but you can't cheese your way to achievements like Shocking, Safety Dance, or And They Would All Go Down Together
I lost a brain cell reading this. Most of this was talked about at Blizzcon.

Q: There are still no Achievements beyond “Collect 75 unique companion pets”. Can I expect a reward for 100 companion pets in the future? – Whitewnd (Korea)
    A: Patch 4.1 has achievements for 100 and 125 companions. Those particular achievements don’t reward pets, but we’ll probably do another reward at some tier in the future, perhaps 150 or 200 pets.


Wait, what? Really? One of the biggest money sinks in the game, and you DON'T want players to go all out until 150 or 200? That's new, but in all due respect COME ON!

Other than that, nothing earthshattering, or terrible exciting. Still, thanks for taking our questions.

*Waits until next Tuesday's Legendary show*

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