Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

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04/29/2011 09:30 PMPosted by Mcfuzzy
If a guild member is removed from the guild by the GM or Officer (or whomever has kicking authority) all guild XP contributed by that member is removed from the guild, perhaps even causing the guild to lose levels. Is a guild member voluntarily leaves a guild by using /gquit, then any guild XP that member contributed remains intact.


You may be right that this would solve some of the kick abuse, but imagine this. What if your the guild leader and theres a guy who's a total jerk and putting down all your members, but the guy is still doing his dailies and runs and gaining a lot of XP for your guild. Now, would you want to possibly lose a guild level just because you did the right thing and kicked a jerk from your guild? I don't think so.


I didn't mean that the guild would automatically lose a level for kicking someone. What I meant was that if the amount of guild XP this one guy had contributed to the guild happened to be enough to bring the guild from it's current level down to the previous level, that it could happen.

For example, say my guild was currently 1000 xp into level 15. We kick a member who has contributed say 4000 xp in total. We'd lose the 4000 xp, dropping us to level 14, with 3000 to go until we're back up to level 15.

Sure, no one would like to see the guild drop a level, but it would be built back up quickly enough by the remaining members.
04/29/2011 11:31 PMPosted by Hansiri


You may be right that this would solve some of the kick abuse, but imagine this. What if your the guild leader and theres a guy who's a total jerk and putting down all your members, but the guy is still doing his dailies and runs and gaining a lot of XP for your guild. Now, would you want to possibly lose a guild level just because you did the right thing and kicked a jerk from your guild? I don't think so.


I didn't mean that the guild would automatically lose a level for kicking someone. What I meant was that if the amount of guild XP this one guy had contributed to the guild happened to be enough to bring the guild from it's current level down to the previous level, that it could happen.

For example, say my guild was currently 1000 xp into level 15. We kick a member who has contributed say 4000 xp in total. We'd lose the 4000 xp, dropping us to level 14, with 3000 to go until we're back up to level 15.

Sure, no one would like to see the guild drop a level, but it would be built back up quickly enough by the remaining members.


Why would anyone want a system where things that could be hard won are taken away. The person we kick may have never contributed to guild XP or Gbank donations, why should everyone else's hard earned xp be removed.
My Question is if the guild level cap will be raised to 30 or higher because the guild dont do anything when they hit level 25 there is nothing to work for. You may say ooh they can get guild rep, they have a tabard at friendly reputation with the guild that puts 50% rep with guild.


We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties.


So why introduce the Random Guild Finder? Isn't that setting guilds and new members for failure?
I find it comedic that smaller guilds are complaining, these rewards are earned, not handed out. They take time, and that time is lessened if you have more people doing it. If blizzard released some huge crafting project that yielded some amazing award you'd have people teaming up to farm the mats, do you think anyone would pay attention to the people complaining that "I don't have many friends who want to help farm, hey Blizz, reduce the mats for people without friends, make the playing field even!". No, if you choose to play with a smaller group, you probably have the advantage of being close-knit, but you don't get a handicap to get even with the larger guilds.
Edited by Weiland on 4/27/11 6:01 PM (UTC) Really lame considering there were soo many better questions
there really needs to be some sort of way to change the role or powers of the GM to prevent guilds from floundering. For a GM to up and Kick ppl is sorta totalitarian and should be more of a council/democratic decision for example when you kick a player from a 5man random but instead make it a % of the accounts tied to the guild.

"Well what if there aren't that many ppl on ?"
Then the vote cannot pass !
or make it so ppl can vote when they login


Guild housing?? really ppl come on use the search function on the website/forums ... lets not waste our little time communicating with the Dev's on such a silly question. It has been answered many times before I site the following forum posts
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089199892?page=4#61
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2228427787#9
thats just 2 out of 4203 and i'm sure there is some blue post in one of these threads saying the exact same thing. L2Search

Just a quick question about guild challenges. In the tool tip it states "Each guild challenge completed will reward guild experience beyong the daily cap. If your guild is not capped, this will extend your current daily cap."

I'm in a small guild and we don't make our daily cap very often, and based on the tool tip this will award no extra guild xp but extend a the cap by 300000, am I understanding this wrong? Will we get 300000guild xp or will it just raise our daily cap? if its the latter of the 2 then there is no motivation for guilds to do these other than they are reaching the cap or for the gold that gets put into the guild bank (which then a devious GM can snatch and kick ppl).

Guild xp really should scale w/accounts that are in the guild (not by how many toons are in the guild) and of course it needs to have a base starting lvl 16580000 is alot of xp for small guilds (1-10 accounts) that aren't hardcore fiends for their war crack, it would seem smaller if 100% of the xp we players earned went to the guild as well but it doesn't work like that.

Well Im in a guild right now with over 600 (used to be over 800 before kicking inactives) people, so to have a % vote kick would be rediculous, and our officers and our GM only kicks people who made an account, and never got on it. So obveously it would be to our extream disadvantage to implement it that way, and obveously would make it alot harder for our guild. A guild master is supposed to be the MASTER of the guild, so obveously they need some powers to keep people in line, or be able to get rid of unruly or otherwise players who have a negative impact on the guild or many of its members. If they had to vote everytime they wanted to kick someone, we would never get ANYTHING done. Also, the gold in the GV is used for a number of things, like buying bank tabs and for various achievs (like the repair bill).
Plus having a guild with so many people would mean that if you reduced the amount of XP each of us gave our guild, then having so many would be alot more disadvantigous so guild masters would be MORE inclined to kick people to increase the XP gain, for the people who get on more often. Also including your alts into a guild would be disproductive then too because you cant be on all of them at the same time, but they would be reducing the amount of XP you gave just by sitting there. So instead of giving my small part (yes because my character on this relm is a low lvl) I'd give next to nothing in XP and become extreamly dissatisfied with the guild system because honestly it would be better if I was there then.
It's good to see Blizzard taking these questions seriously for their Ask The Devs series. It's hard to believe that they spent so much time thoughtfully addressing what appears to be most of the concerns posted. I applaud you, Blizzard. Bravo!
I think the guild reward system overall is fairly decent. As for the rep issue, at least hey offered some facet of getting more rep at a faster pace. I mean, they could have just taken the common stance that they have in the past and said, "Nope, working as intended!"

One area that they could look at implementing along with the guild challenges, is guild solo daily quests. Design a system of like 20 random quests (ie. crafting, collection, kill etc.) and have them level appropriate where players can do 5 a day to provide xp and gold for the guild, and rep, xp and gold for themselves. It would give the smaller, lower level guilds with lower level characters a chance to level their guilds a bit faster. And to avoid the response from blizz that it would take far too much effort making a variety of quests for all levels, they could be more generic and easy to do for all levels like a quest for "Pest Control" where a player has to kill 20 rats in any capital city making any of the variety of rats eligible to kill for completion of the quest.

As for the mass kicking issue, there should be some sort of penalty for guilds that recruit a ton of players to help them level faster then boot them after they achieve a certain level. Or at least let the people keep 75% of the rep they gained with a guild to be transfered into another guild if and only if the player is booted from a guild. If they leave on their own they lose all of the rep.
my 2 cents on some fixes:

Daily cap was a mistake to begin with. Fair would be a cap based on days since all guilds were allowed to level. That way new guilds with people working hard to catch up to where their totalitarian jerkfest former guild was would actually be able to. And you wouldn't be punished for your guild members having lives and seeing family for major holidays, where the current system very quickly put the no-lifers way ahead. Since there's already a good many guilds capped to 25, this method would basically mean until the cap is raised people should now be progressing as fast as they can put the work in.

Scale guild xp contribution (and therefore rep, which scales with xp) to the number of accounts in the guild. Not characters, we shouldn't punish people for letting alts reap the bonus xp earned by their main. But one of the things promised back when this idea was first being toyed with, back when it was going to be Guild Talent Trees instead of set perks, was allowing all styles of guild a reasonable chance to advance. With this tweak, small guilds of friends would get that equality with uber invite alls which they've been promised for so long. Also, since inviting everybody wouldn't necessarily be automatically faster advancement than being selective, the lack of incentive in inviting at random should cut down on the kicking all once 25 is reached. Unless they're just that big of a jerk. Just with the scaling, keep in mind the big all-welcome types need equality too, and they're bound to have more latching on for a carry and less ability to micromanage that many people to the point of realizing which ones do. So, for example, a guild with 20 unique accounts shouldn't make exactly twice the contributions that a guild with 40 accounts gets, as the larger one is sure to have more freeloaders and less ability to recognize them. But it definately should be noticably higher.

The lowbie repping thing is much trickier. If scaled to be more relative to your level, it could establish a baseline and clear up some problems as people suggested. Then again, it could encourage continually making new alts and blowing through the first 20 levels in order to powerlevel the guild, as early quests are undeniably faster to finish than later ones (well, most anyways). It's a very tricky issue. As much as it pains to say to leave an issue alone, this one might need just that. Seriously, even without heirloom bonus xp you can get high level in record time these days. If levelling your character were any easier, we'd just be handed lvl 85 upon creating a toon. Experience per level keeps being slashed, experience given per quest keeps going up, there's message boards in the cities to tell you which zone to go quest in at your level for that continent, 1-58 quests are purely made for soloing easily with any given class/spec, the list goes on. Just level, worry about rep later.
I was on a very small server where hardly anyone was even close to the level 25 cap, and then switched to Dalvengyr, where I found Geeks of Doom. The (yes, created by the website Geeks of Doom's developers) guild is probably the largest on the server, and reached first level 25 HORDE guild. The recruitment probably was a little random, but the ranking system makes up for it and the community in the guild is one of the strongest I've ever had. On Dalvengyr, a low-medium server, the level cap on guilds seems PERFECT to content. We're now happily level 25, and along with many other guilds at this peak on our server, we discourage the allowing of others to join. Our reasoning was that we already have so many... I think this works perfectly and prevents hacks, scammers and such. Very nice work on the whole system Blizz, even with the problems of starting up a guild. (I once started and let a guild fall in 3months, we earned 7000 gold and had very few level 80s... maybe the extra work in the beginning is a good thing.)

I also want to add that I think guild housing would make Warcraft feel like some other games that it's not. I love the idea of having a guild meeting place, thoguh I tried it once and people just complained that it was an inconvenience to meet face-to-face instead of just using guild chat. I have a feeling it's only really used when more than one guild is involved and that's dissappointing.

Keep at it, you mademe happy with this one Blizz.
i say the guild master shouldn't have complete control at level 20 and up it should take a majority guild vote to disband... if the gm wants to just own it by him self and boots everyone with out a voting system then that guilds level should be reduced to only what the gm himself has contributed.. as such i think this would stop alot of these greedy people.

a guild is only as strong as its weakest member and if every one has participated in it aka just like shareholder then they should get a voting right as to disbanding and such.

and if the gm doesnt participate then he shouldnt get the final say.. just because some guy wants to make a guild just to steals some peoples hard work doesnt mean he should be able to keep it.
PSS:
As mentioned, we are organized into an Alliance of Guilds, some Sister Guilds focus on pvp, some pve, some social, some leveling, how about this as a guild tool:
Alow GM's to TRANSFER guild Rep on a specific toon to another guild.
So if the person's not a "guild hopper", but say instead, a valued officer being assigned to a co-operative "sister guild", by GM "sign off" be allowed to transfer his/her hard earned guild rep to another guild?

I fully realize the guild rep/rewrds system was installed to combat the problem of guilds having a hard time devloping, leaving GM's constantly recruiting to keep the ranks filled. Having the ability to transfer a guild members/toons guild rep to a co-operative "sister guild" would allow guilds to actually HELP each other.

Our current situation is a good example:
Us: #2 (in size) guild on our server, advanced in pvp (Ranked 6th), advanced in Banking (27 total vault pages all stuffed), an experienced raiding organization. W're trying to help a "Sister Guild" who is the largest on our server, but has NO raiding/pvp organization. We are assigning some of our Guild Officers to place toons in the Sister Guild, to help organize and advance their guild development. Downside of course, is the officers lose their very precious rep.

Justa sggestion...seems this is the place for such things..

Belle
agreed, I leveled mine from 1 to 2 (or extremely close) in about a month and a half with quests and randoms, still getting disheartened and thinking of quitting.
Ask the Devs #6: Concise VersionQ: Could you help out small guilds? Everyone just joins the big ones for the perks.A: Nah, it's fine.Q: How about helping small guilds level faster?A: Guild Challenges will fix it.Q: What about guild leaders booting everyone at 25?A: That's your problem.Q: Guild housing? Please?A: No. Stop asking.Q: Daily caps for guild XP?A: Nah, it's fine.Q: More guild XP/rep at low levels?A: Okay, fine.Q: Help! My guild got hacked!A: Write a ticket and pray.Q: Uh, some of us don't really look at guilds the same way you do...A: Too bad, conform.Q: Repping up alts is a nightmare!A: Just buy a tabard.Q: We're a huge guild that's already hit level cap! We want more stuff!A: Too ba... Wait, did you say you're a large guild? Absolutely! Have more stuff!This is so very much what I wanted to say in response to this Q&A. I bow before your superior skills in satire and linguistic tomfoolery.And to the "official people" reading this, PAY ATTENTION. Things are NOT fine., lots of people are NOT happy, and no, it isn't just the usual malcontents either.

/agree

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