Frost PvE from tonight.

Mage
Played frost tonight, as promised. I was a bit disappointed by the numbers, which is included 2 #1's, a 2, 3, 4, and 9 for frost (all still disappointing compared to my arcane numbers)

Anyway - made a quick blog post about frost anyway.

http://wow.mmoscholar.com/2011/05/10/frost-pve/
Frost is one of those rotations that really does reward the player the most for playing it right.


Shame they won't buff it to be competitive with the other two.
wheres the logs?
05/10/2011 09:51 PMPosted by Ankliferan
wheres the logs?


Link's in the blog post
your "bad" frost numbers are way better than my normal DPS. >.>
05/10/2011 10:07 PMPosted by Bakery
your "bad" frost numbers are way better than my normal DPS. >.>


Didn't say they were bad, just said I was hoping they'd be better =p
Yeah, Frost just doesn't have the Secondary stat scaling the other two specs have. It's a shame so much of our damage is put into Frostbolt.

(Side Note: Zythian, if you could, tell Riou Fantine from Detheroc says hi. I miss that crazy boy.)
It's a shame so much of our damage is put into Frostbolt.



I would say Arcane suffers from spam syndrome, not Frost.
05/10/2011 10:27 PMPosted by Steehl
Yeah, Frost just doesn't have the Secondary stat scaling the other two specs have.


Scaling's in pretty good shape now:

Intellect
4.9879 Arcane
3.5931 Frost
3.3041 Fire

Spell Power
2.8266 Frost
2.7656 Arcane
2.4396 Fire

Crit
1.4874 Fire
1.3819 Arcane
1.1055 Frost

Haste
1.5036 Fire
1.4765 Frost
1.2841 Arcane

Mastery
1.4849 Arcane
1.3577 Frost
1.1021 Fire
Zythian: based on your description of the Frost rotation in your blog post, it doesn't sound like you were banking an FOF charge. Is that the case, or were you just simplifying it for the description?
05/11/2011 04:36 AMPosted by Lhivera
Zythian: based on your description of the Frost rotation in your blog post, it doesn't sound like you were banking an FOF charge. Is that the case, or were you just simplifying it for the description?


I can't say I did 100% but the majority of the time, I did, yes. I was trying to dumb down the rotation really, as it is sadly complex compared to the other 2. I can recall a few times in the night where I messed up pretty miserably (like the reason my Atramedes parse was bad), but alas every night isn't perfect. This was a dodgey answer now that I read it...

Basically, yes, I generally bank a proc.
Is banking an FoF charge supposed to yield higher DPS in theory? What are the pros and cons to banking an FoF charge?
05/11/2011 06:03 AMPosted by Jackielynn
Is banking an FoF charge supposed to yield higher DPS in theory? What are the pros and cons to banking an FoF charge?


If you get a Brain Freeze proc you can throw it instantly and not risk overwriting it waiting for a FoF proc.
generally the idea of banking a charge is to save it for bfffb to guarantee a crit (if you have the required amount of base crit to have ~100% crit on a frozen target). also, i believe having fof up increases frostbolt damage by a certain % anyway.

edit: Zy, i read somewhere that since ffo can (apparently, haven't noticed this much myself, but i only play frost on nef) proc brain freeze, bfffb can potentially just be cast on cd for a dps gain. not entirely sure on the validity of that statement.
It also makes for more frequent use of Freeze. Instead of sitting on Freeze until you need it, you use it on cooldown (burning off any remaining charges with Ice Lance first), since Brain Freeze and Deep Freeze are covered by the banked charge.

The downside is that it increases the number of things you're keeping track of, and increased complexity means you're more likely to make mistakes.

Zythian, it's possible that the difference in performance is largely due to the fact that you're just not as used to playing the spec; it takes time for the nuances of any rotation to really settle into the brainstem and become second nature. Of course, finding out would mean committing to it long-term, which may not be at all feasible.
It also makes for more frequent use of Freeze. Instead of sitting on Freeze until you need it, you use it on cooldown (burning off any remaining charges with Ice Lance first), since Brain Freeze and Deep Freeze are covered by the banked charge.

The downside is that it increases the number of things you're keeping track of, and increased complexity means you're more likely to make mistakes.

Zythian, it's possible that the difference in performance is largely due to the fact that you're just not as used to playing the spec; it takes time for the nuances of any rotation to really settle into the brainstem and become second nature. Of course, finding out would mean committing to it long-term, which may not be at all feasible.


I completely agree that the difference in performance could largely be based on a lack of experience with the spec, but I also find the complexity of the frost rotation to be one of the reasons it falls so far behind in general. I'm also not sure the difference between my performance in the 2 specs could be made up by experience playing one. I feel like on certain fights I played the spec to virtual perfection and still fell pretty far short.
It's a shame so much of our damage is put into Frostbolt.



I would say Arcane suffers from spam syndrome, not Frost.


All mage specs suffer from some semblance of spam syndrome. That's their design intent, remember? A few months back during the Q&A's I remember they said mages are supposed to be casting one primary main nuke with a couple of support spells and some other things here and there.
Thanks for the post & going through the reforging/etc effort.

I don't see the logs at the blog. Am I just being obtuse? I see "Here are the logs", then all of the links (Facebook, twitter, etc.), then the generic website footer.
Mouse over the word "Here"
05/11/2011 06:44 AMPosted by Zythian
I completely agree that the difference in performance could largely be based on a lack of experience with the spec, but I also find the complexity of the frost rotation to be one of the reasons it falls so far behind in general. I'm also not sure the difference between my performance in the 2 specs could be made up by experience playing one. I feel like on certain fights I played the spec to virtual perfection and still fell pretty far short.


This was my experience as well (I tried frost last week). For instance, I thought I played magmaw almost perfectly, and I got the #1 parse, yet when I was arcane (and screwing up a fair amount) I did almost 4k DPS higher, on a longer fight (5:38 vs 5:18). The extra survivability is nice via Ice Barrier, but having to give up DPS to get Reactive Barrier, as well as the lower DPS in general, doesn't make it worth it to me.

Logs are here if anyone's interested:
Frost: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5yak986vrube1lnu/sum/damageDone/?s=1396&e=1715
Arcane: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xbk9ofjdauytfwka/sum/damageDone/?s=1438&e=1776

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum