4.2 Conquest Change: Why neuter Arena?

Arenas
If I am understanding the most recent PTR notes about the conquest point changes, the following will occur.

1500 will be the new minimum weekly cap for all forms of rated pvp. At 1501 rated bg rating, it will begin to rise above 1500. Conquest point caps from arena will now always be = to 67% of the cap earned by a rated bg rating of the same value as the highest rated arena team of the player (when PR is close enough to TR, etc).

The cap will continue to scale "non linearly" between 1500-3000 at rated bg ratings of 1500-3000.


Now, again, if I'm not mistaken, this is what that actually means to Arena players who don't grind up their rated bg rating:

You will now have to have an arena rating MUCH higher than 1501 to raise your conquest point cap.

No matter how high your arena rating, your cap can never exceed 2000 points per week if you do not grind up your rated bg rating.

So, if the scaling of point cap at differing bg rating levels remains the same or similar to it's model on live, the following will happen.


At ~2400 you get 3000 pts. At around 2200 you get ~2400 pts. At ~ 1850 you get ~2000 points.


So, if these 4.2 changes go through, the following is going to happen. A 3100 rank 1 in the world 3v3 team earns 2000 pts per week, the same that an 1850 3v3 team earns in this season. Really?

An ~2200 3v3 team earns ~2400*0.67=1600 points per week. Barely over the amount that a 300 rated 3v3 team earns.

Below ~2100, everyone participating in arena gets the exact same conquest point cap.


Is this really what you want?


For years during the development of rated bgs the feature was advertised as an ALTERNATE method of rated pvp progression. Never was it ever alluded to that it would be made mandatory for effective progression in arena to also dump large amounts of time into rated bgs.

Why the philosphy change?


And perhaps more importantly, what will it take to convince the development team that this is a horrible idea that will actually diminish your pvp community?

Rated BG participation is not great, and maybe not what you'd like it to be, but that does not mean arena focused players should be punished so horribly with a system that no longer really provides appropriate awards representative of skill and accomplishments while participating in that end game progression path.


To improve rated bgs, improve their incentives with additional vanity items, etc. Don't de-incentivize arena.


Also, I can tell you emphatically that the inherent problems with the rated bg system have been major deterrents in my participation in that system.

Namely:


Not enough rating gain for wins below 1500.

Losing large amounts of MMR for a loss when the average enemy MMR for the match was 600 pts above your personal MMR.

For several months at the launch of the season, losing personal rating and MMR when actually WINNING a match. This was never retroactively corrected. My pvp tab win - loss ration looks horrendous when you can see from the win count in my acheivments that its actually just over .500.


Fix rateg bgs and improve non combat rewards from the system, don't remove rewards from arenas.

I've played since classic, I've never dropped my sub, and I've never once threatened to over a change.

But this is literally a change that makes me want to leave this game.

And I'm not alone. Go read arenajunkies.com. Arena players are pissed.
05/12/2011 09:22 AMPosted by Nëna
So exactly what is wrong with this change? Your point cap still goes up. How will it affect you at high rank or low rank?


The problem is that instead of getting rewarded at 1500+ arena rating with additional points which scale as you get better, you don't get any increase in your point cap until over 2100 rating.

For the best arena players in the world, they'll gear up at the same rate as a 1900 rated bg player. This literally forces every single competetive arena player to also grind rated bg rating or fall behind in gear and in turn fall behind in arena.

Rated BGs were promoted to us literally for YEARS as an ALTERNATIVE form of endgame rated pvp. Not an effectively mandatory additional timesink in order to stay competetive in arena.
Post is too long so I didnt read it but the short answer is:

Rbgs take more time = greater reward
RBGs = trash = need artificial ways to force people into doing them.
I don't think it's so much to trivialize arena as it is an indirect incentive for PVE content. With the valor to CP conversion now available it is probably an indirect attempt to get more pure pvpers to que for Tier 2 heroics and the new raids.

Simultaneously they probably thought less than serious arena players were probably finding it a bit too easy to get points with the 5 arena wins (which could be dooe in about thirty minutes usually in the 2v2 bracket with a random partner) so the change might be to throttle pvp gear aquisition next tier.

Yeah I'm not fond of rated BGs either. I think I lost the first fifteen to twenty games I played (some casually thrown together ones with guildees and friends who aren't exactly great at pvp) and hence my MMR was so low I was losing rating points and MMR very early. I remember losing 23 points when I was in the 1400s, my teams average was maybe 1600, and the opponet's team average was around 2400 with a few players in the 2800 range.

Contrast this to one of my 2900 rated friends who never lost rating until he was 2700+ regardless of how low the opposing team's MMR or average was.

I'll grind 2400 for the achievments but that will have to wait till next season. If you take losses early there really is no point in playing. The strategy is pretty simple: win your first twenty or so games or your season is either over or a very brutal slog.
Rbgs are significantly harder to play and organize than arena, so it should be more rewarding. Although you should atleast get enough points every week for a main set item if you are above 2200 in arena
Sounds like rbg has little interest for most players so blizz is forcing it. Not a good idea..
What's next? CtA: Rated Battlegrounds? Satchel of Exotic Mysteries for everyone in your team?
If you think there's any more "balance" in RBGs vs. arenas, you've either never participated in them, or play one of said OP/broken classes.

Load up on healers, turtle. Modify strat slightly for ctf bgs. Grats on 2k+. Not most people's idea of "fun".
i think this outcry is more a result of people not understanding the post because it's worded in the most confusing manner possible

i'm inclined to agree with the following, which was posted on AJ


3000 point cap from ARENA means you can only achieve 2000 out of the 3000 points from doing RBG's, leaving you to obtain the remaining 1000 from arena games

3000 point cap from RBG means you can only achieve 2000 out of the 3000 points from doing arena, leaving you to obtain the remaining 1000 from RBGs


the change is to piss off people who get high RBG ratings then play low-rated arenas to reap the points. i don't believe high rated arena players or anyone who gets their conquest cap from arenas will be affected by this change.

Rbgs are significantly harder to play


lmao
Blizzard is trying to hard to make this game easier for there so called "bad players". Why should people who are good at the game have to suffer? Blizzard is to focued on trying to make the game bigger than it already is and easier. Look back at BC, was this game balanced for baddies? No. Now a days you see people full vicious with a team rating stuck at 1400. Where as you can go to wow forums look up someone and they could play in full Bloodthirsty and be at a 2k team. All around, Blizzard makes this game worse and worse with updates like this.
i think this outcry is more a result of people not understanding the post because it's worded in the most confusing manner possible

i'm inclined to agree with the following, which was posted on AJ


3000 point cap from ARENA means you can only achieve 2000 out of the 3000 points from doing RBG's, leaving you to obtain the remaining 1000 from arena games

3000 point cap from RBG means you can only achieve 2000 out of the 3000 points from doing arena, leaving you to obtain the remaining 1000 from RBGs


the change is to piss off people who get high RBG ratings then play low-rated arenas to reap the points. i don't believe high rated arena players or anyone who gets their conquest cap from arenas will be affected by this change.

Rbgs are significantly harder to play


lmao



The way it's worded, if it were a legal document and the wording was not revised, it literally means that at the rated bg rating which would give you a 2239 conquest cap you still get a 1500 conquest point cap from the same arena rating.

At present 2239 conquest cap is obtained around 2100ish rating. This means that until over ~2100 arena rating, you'll earn the conquest cap minimum of 1500 pts.

(2239*0.67=1500.13)

There is no language whatsoever implying a multilevel cap like pve has post 4.1 (it does not in any way imply that playing rated bg matches would award conquest points above and beyond your arena acheived cap when your rated bg rating is not high enough to raise the total cap yet), it pretty directly states that if your highest arena team's equivilent bg rating * 0.67 is greater than the point cap you would have received from rbg rating, you earn your cap only from arena.

So, you're on a 3100 rated 3v3 team with your personal rating = to team rating. Your bg rating is 1500. You get 2000 conquest points per week. The only way you get more than 2k pts per week is to grind your rated bg rating up. The top arena players in the world get to gear up at the same rate as a 1900 rated arena player from s9, or a 1900 rated bg player (in s9 or s10) unless they also choose to grind up their bg rating.

This literally makes rated bgs MANDATORY to arena progression. It kills the arena focused pvp player's abiltiy to remain competetive through arena only.

And the best part is that the lower rated arena player receives no reward beyond the minimum point cap until their arena rating is ~2100+.

Anyone who sees these kind of changes as good for endgame pvp or good for the game at all is someone who literally wants to see the arena system killed.
It goes to show you Blizzard's resolve on fixing a problem. Create another problem and not fix the one that they were trying to in the first place. All the while, it's a slap in the face everyone who doesn't want to do RBG's.

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