How is it fair that DPS never get CTAs?

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We recognize it's not the most elegant solution. Ideally we wouldn't offer greater incentives to one player over another based purely on the class role they each fulfill. That said, the disparity in queue times was unacceptable in our eyes, and we saw that sentiment shared throughout the community.

Perhaps there are better ways for us to lower queue times without having to offer additional rewards to the class role in highest demand in the Dungeon Finder, but Call to Arms is a feature we were able to develop in a much more reasonable time frame.

Do we like that your only reward from the Call to Arms feature is a shorter queue time? No. But then, if the queue times were more equal for each class role, we wouldn't have added Call to Arms in the first place.

I don't really understand the logic in flipping the finger to DPS with the new call to arms system, DPS never get it, but they work just as hard as anyone else to clear a dungeon. Is there anything in the works to make this more fair?


I don't know about you but my queue times are still the same as before. The tanks are doing the same queueing as they did before while getting extra rewards now. If they are tanking more, it's not noticeable. I know one thing is noticeable though. I don't see any tank saying "LFM Dps Random Heroic" in guild chat anymore.
05/13/2011 06:26 PMPosted by Neveh
It's not that people don't understand it, it's that people don't LIKE it. Liking something and understanding it are two different things. What COULD have been done is, more time could have been spent on coming up with a BETTER solution than just flat out bribes. What about improving how tanking works? Try and find a way to make it more fun, instead of giving more tanks an opportunity to say something like "I'm here for my bag, STFU and follow me or GTFO scrubs, you're all terribad."


But why do you CARE?

What possible difference does it make to you if the tank gets a little bag at the end of the run (a little bag by the way that's so little it hasn't yet tempted me in the slightest to go tank a pug).

How are YOU impacted by that, save for the fact that YOUR dungeon queue was noticably shorter than it previously had been?

Pardon my bluntness, but most of these complaints seem like childish "he got something I didn't...waahhhhhh" whines.


Actually it really hasn't been much shorter than it used to be. Instead of waiting 45 -60 minutes, I've been waiting n40-50 minutes still. not much of an improvement. And yes, for non-Zandalari heroics.

Yes, I understand that if you bribe your child with a cookie, they'll be more likely to pick up their toys. But does it send them the right message, or risk turning them into spoiled brats? THAT is the point I'm trying to make, and that is why I care. Many tanks, and even healers (not all, but many) already have a strong sense of self-entitlement, and a very bad attitude to go with it, which makes grouping and playing the game MUCH less fun for those people who aren't selfish. CTA treat bags are just reinforcing those attitudes.
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I don't know about you but my queue times are still the same as before.


print screen of said 45 minute queue time for regular heroic with you holding a clock.


What's the clock got to do with anything?
I'm just gonna say it, this thread is stupid. Your complaining is stupid.

Take the shorter queue times and be grateful for at least that.

Or learn to do something besides sit on a dps toon and complain like a jerk.

Seriously, people are never happy. I'm thankful that at least blizzard did something to help. I hardly agree with them about everything, but disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing gets you nowhere.
It would stil lbe better to give the reward to all involved as long as one person in the group is getting that said reward.


Why? How would that lower queue times at all? Did the whole point of the CTA go completely over your head?


I agree the system is not fair to dps at all .


It was designed to favour the least represented class, which by definition, is not fair, so grats on picking up on the obvious stuff.
to the OP .... you can take the gear your using and learn how to tank ... its easy peasy as a druid .... all of your gear will work for tanking ... I still need tia's grace for my tank set but its whatever to me now ....

bear tanking is easy ... the challenge with bear tanking is at low levels before you get swipe and glyph of maul ...


here's how to fix this: increase tanking spec character damage against all NPC mobs by 300%. decrease dps spec character damage against all NPC mobs by 75%. Increase damage taken by all dps spec characters by 10000%. Increase healing done on all tanking spec characters by 1000%. Reduce healing done on all dps spec characters by 90%.

then, no one will want to queue as dps, but because you need 3 to run, dps will get the stupid bag.
Oh i get why CTA was put in. And dont jump on the "roll a tank" wagon. I have a 85 druid tank that i tank on. That was the point of me making him. but hes not my main. My hunter is. And i still have ques that are LONG 30 min and up. CTA failed.
05/13/2011 06:31 PMPosted by Stasia


But why do you CARE?

What possible difference does it make to you if the tank gets a little bag at the end of the run (a little bag by the way that's so little it hasn't yet tempted me in the slightest to go tank a pug).

How are YOU impacted by that, save for the fact that YOUR dungeon queue was noticably shorter than it previously had been?

Pardon my bluntness, but most of these complaints seem like childish "he got something I didn't...waahhhhhh" whines.


Actually it really hasn't been much shorter than it used to be. Instead of waiting 45 -60 minutes, I've been waiting n40-50 minutes still. not much of an improvement. And yes, for non-Zandalari heroics.

Yes, I understand that if you bribe your child with a cookie, they'll be more likely to pick up their toys. But does it send them the right message, or risk turning them into spoiled brats? THAT is the point I'm trying to make, and that is why I care. Many tanks, and even healers (not all, but many) already have a strong sense of self-entitlement, and a very bad attitude to go with it, which makes grouping and playing the game MUCH less fun for those people who aren't selfish. CTA treat bags are just reinforcing those attitudes.


Ok, one question then: Would you rather go back to the 45-60 minute queue then?

I ask, because there is no system in the world that can be reasonably put in place that will reduce those queues without bribing tanks and healers to queue more.

So, if you honestly think CtA has made tanks and healers elitist, to the point that the drop in queue time is not worth it, I could understand that opinion (even though I don't agree with it entirely). But accept then the long queue times.
05/13/2011 06:22 PMPosted by Xem
The queue times aren't dropping. I see it constantly on my lock. The times are actually higher a lot of the time. CTA hasn't worked as intended.


You're not being dumb and referring to the Zandalari heroics, right? I mean, you are comparing apples to apples and referring to the normal heroics, right?

Because on my Alliance characters, my queue times for the normal heroics have gone from 45 minutes to 20 or less. On my Horde characters, queues have gone from 25 minutes to 10 or less. Queues for the Zandalari heroics are longer, but since that queue never existed before CtA, you can't really compare it to anything.



Fair enough. My previous queue time were around 32-35 minutes on regular heroics. Queued up now aaaaand I am at 29. A 3-6 minute change isnt what I would call a success.

Again I am not one of those complaining about the Bag I don't care about pets/mounts/gold. I just don't think it is bringing in the tanks/healers as well as they predicted to lower the queue times.

I think a lot of this may change once 4.2 hits and the current tier becomes easily obtainable by the general masses and people are able to gear up their alts much faster.
The only thing that will truly bring down the DPS queue is... Fewer DPS.

Get your face out of recount and stop complaining that there aren't enough tanks and healers.
05/13/2011 06:31 PMPosted by Stasia
Yes, I understand that if you bribe your child with a cookie, they'll be more likely to pick up their toys. But does it send them the right message, or risk turning them into spoiled brats?
um, no. spoiled is when you give them a cookie even when they don't pick up their toys...
05/13/2011 06:31 PMPosted by Kevyne
Design dungeons and raids that are anything but DPS races; or one role has to do all or the party/raid wipes deal.

do either of those and dps are not needed at all.

see any boss pre enrage timer
05/13/2011 06:29 PMPosted by Kátarn
Enjoy your 30-40 minute queues again whiner.


They never left? Maybe some servers had more success than others, but mine, there's not much of a change most of the time.

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