New Raid system...no

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trying to think of a progression model for the next expac assuming to tiers at launch with normal and heroic dungeons.


333 (normal dungeon) > 346 (normal raid) / (5 man heroic) > 359 (t2 raid) > 372 (t2 heroic raid)


there would be no t1 heroic bosses
in order to start t2 you have to complete all of t1.
normal dungeons for gearing up
heroic 5 mans additional optional content. t1 + heroic 5 mans = gear up faster for t2 than just running t1 by itself.



05/24/2011 08:36 PMPosted by Cyberweasel
I didn't get either of those from a raid, much less an achievement for completing a raid.


You got Reins of the rusted proto-drake 11/13/10 - did you use those? You shouldn't have, since you got it long after the content was both nerfed AND outgeared.

The point is, live what you preach. If you're going to throw a hissy fit about not being a special snowflake, then don't go after titles and mounts that you outgear and/or have been nerfed. How many of the Lich King titles do you have that you got long after the raids were no longer relevant? I count several.


And Blizzard should have removed them, as for living what I preach, Dragonslayer and Blackwing's Bane should also be removed (notice how I don't have those?). Starcaller, Kingslayer, Bane of the Fallen King, the proto-drakes, all should have been removed.
Why indeed progress when you can wait for 4.3 or 4.4?


That's what I have been asking. Why would people wait if they know they'll get everything more easily. We're not talking about future expansions, we're talking about the very next content patch.


Maybe because not everyone is purely loot motivated? You do realize many if not most of us understood this to be the system the whole time, right? I raided knowing full well that the tier would likely become nerfed come the next tier. I did so with the goal as getting as much as I could down before the nerfs came.

And Blizzard should have removed them, as for living what I preach, Dragonslayer and Blackwing's Bane should also be removed (notice how I don't have those?). Starcaller, Kingslayer, Bane of the Fallen King, the proto-drakes, all should have been removed.


They didn't remove those, though, and you really should have caught on that this was the system before now. Anyone still raiding should be well past this issue.
I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


Man it would have been so hard Getting Defender+Phoenix Mount 3 months later when I'm in half Firelands gear from Heroics VP and JP gear 359s in the meantime

Luckily Blizzard nerfed the content. It'd be super hard doing it when overgeared for!

Outdated content and outdated rewards are serious business.


Exactly the reason to remove them.



That's what I have been asking. Why would people wait if they know they'll get everything more easily. We're not talking about future expansions, we're talking about the very next content patch.


Maybe because not everyone is purely loot motivated? You do realize many if not most of us understood this to be the system the whole time, right? I raided knowing full well that the tier would likely become nerfed come the next tier. I did so with the goal as getting as much as I could down before the nerfs came.


Never said I was loot motivated, I'll note that I did point out that I was okay with this change just not what it meant to the reward for the people who earned it.

They didn't remove those, though, and you really should have caught on that this was the system before now. Anyone still raiding should be well past this issue.


I'm fully aware that they didn't and fully aware of their stance. I think Blizzard's decision to begin nerfing the previous tier's content as soon as a new tier is released should have them reconsider because of a precedent that it sets.


Maybe because not everyone is purely loot motivated? You do realize many if not most of us understood this to be the system the whole time, right? I raided knowing full well that the tier would likely become nerfed come the next tier. I did so with the goal as getting as much as I could down before the nerfs came.


But now, luckily, you get auto-promoted to new content whether you like it or not.


It's been the system for awhile now, Spy. Will you continue to complain about this with each new expansion?
05/24/2011 08:44 PMPosted by Ceriadiedqq
Do you still wear Kingslayer? I hear that's pretty easy now too.


Trolling aside, that's part of my point.


Maybe because not everyone is purely loot motivated? You do realize many if not most of us understood this to be the system the whole time, right? I raided knowing full well that the tier would likely become nerfed come the next tier. I did so with the goal as getting as much as I could down before the nerfs came.


Never said I was loot motivated, I'll note that I did point out that I was okay with this change just not what it meant to the reward for the people who earned it.

They didn't remove those, though, and you really should have caught on that this was the system before now. Anyone still raiding should be well past this issue.


I'm fully aware that they didn't and fully aware of their stance. I think Blizzard's decision to begin nerfing the previous tier's content as soon as a new tier is released should have them reconsider because of a precedent that it sets.


What makes you think that those "who've earned it" are not going to be flashing a new title and riding something much cooler while you are trying to show off an outdated title and mount?

Looks like you are one of those scrubs w 359 gear.
Come on dude, you are the typical wannabe hardcore, get some hardcore modes under your belt and then come tell us how you feel about the nerfs.


The gear I have was earned legitimately and is demonstrative of my skill and dedication. Am I the best? Not even close, but I gained this gear fairly and am content with that. I have done one hm successfully and feel that the content difficulty in normal is fine.

I feel I am a better player after what I went through to get it. Can the people who will clear the nerfed content say the same? It's doubtful and, if they say ye,s then they would have been content with and easy raid mode from the beginning.

Provide more difficulties and this won't be a problem.
trying to think of a progression model for the next expac assuming to tiers at launch with normal and heroic dungeons.


333 (normal dungeon) > 346 (normal raid) / (5 man heroic) > 359 (t2 raid) > 372 (t2 heroic raid)


there would be no t1 heroic bosses
in order to start t2 you have to complete all of t1.
normal dungeons for gearing up
heroic 5 mans additional optional content. t1 + heroic 5 mans = gear up faster for t2 than just running t1 by itself.


So like wrath, you'd have heroics and raid content (was only 10m in wrath, but the same concept) with the same gear level, and the next tier being 13 item levels higher, with 2 tiers shipped at release.

Wrath kinda/sorta worked that way, with sarth2d+/kt/maly working as the 'second tier', at least as far as item levels are concerned. However, I'm sure they'll find issues with whatever they decide in 4.2 and it will evolve over the span of this expansion, and what we see in 5.x will reflect that evolution.

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