New Raid system...no

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05/24/2011 09:04 PMPosted by Judgedredde
blizz did announce they lost 600k subs. now this has never happened in the nearly 7 years of wow's existence.


This is incorrect. In fact, they said when they announced the 600k loss that it's pretty typical for this to occur, but it doesn't often occur quite as fast as it did in cataclysm.
In other games you need to complete levels 4 and 5 before going to level 6. You don't whine and complain to the developer to give you the code to go straight to level 6 because when you get there you'll die anyway since you couldn't even beat level 4.


The big difference between WoW and those other MMOs? 11.4 million subscribers.

Most of whom will never be hardcore raiders. A lot of whom would love to see the content, get the pretty mounts, etc.

How does it change what you did if they can also do it? Achievements list dates - it's clear who got it before and after the nerf. The only difference is you can't feel like a special, unique snowflake.

I'm not terribly sure that made any sense, but, okay?


It has taken six months for this raid tier to get nerfed and its achievements to be trivialized. Firelands is probably going to get a similar expiration period. That means these hypothetical players that are going to be doing nothing, waiting for their free Firelands crap, until Christmas.

That is why nobody is just going to sit around until things get nerfed, because it is ridiculous.


I doubt firelands will have a lifespan of 6 months.

At least, I hope it doesn't. No matter how amazing those 7 bosses are, 6 months is a long time to be doing the same 7 bosses week in and week out.

Ahh, you have the answers. please point me to another mmo more successful than wow since those other games have a better formula. Since you're so smart why are you playing this game instead of those that do it so much better?

One day RL will call and I think you will have a big dose of sad bud.


Yes real life works the way I presented it. You aren't gift wrapped success. Success is earned and different levels of success are adequate for different people. This would be analogous to different difficulties. I have already said it's doubtful that I will progress much more into hm, but I'm ok with that and don't think blizz should nerf them just so I can see the content.

I'm not ok with cheapening the game as it produces poor players. As a massively multilayer game we all have to play together. Making the player base better makes the game better. As for other games blizz is only out to make money and I understand that, however, I think that this mentality hurts the quality of the game.

I swear, everytime somebody doesn't like an action from Blizzard they act like the sky is falling on us all. So what if people can get that ugly pheonix 20% 'easier' and the title come 4.2? It's the very nature of all MMO's to move forward and thus kind of "forget" about the old content. It's about what's new, not what was new 3 months ago.

All of you who, as you say, worked hard for the opening title and mount from raiding will have just as much fun working for the new one in 4.2 when it is released.


TL;DR Stop crying, put down the razors, and get ready to have fun kicking Ragnaros all over the place! :)
People need to get past color of gear. All epics aren't created equal. And yes, getting heroic raid gear is still a pretty epic feeling.

The big difference between WoW and those other MMOs? 11.4 million subscribers.

Most of whom will never be hardcore raiders. A lot of whom would love to see the content, get the pretty mounts, etc.

How does it change what you did if they can also do it? Achievements list dates - it's clear who got it before and after the nerf. The only difference is you can't feel like a special, unique snowflake.


That's not the point. If people only want to see the content they would be content with an easy mode difficulty. As it is they are asking for the same rewards for less work/effort. I enjoyed normals and probably will never see heroics. That's fine.

Don't cheapen content with nerfs down the line to create the illusion of accessibility. This just makes bad players. I want to play with good players.
05/24/2011 07:31 PMPosted by Bashiok
CRAAAAWLING IIIIIIN MYYYYY SKIIIIIIIIN


Like.
There is no entitlement in this game. Always remember that epics are transitory. If it makes you feel better, you can claim anyone who got the title and mount after 4.2 is released is a 'baddie', not that I share your viewpoint.

Blizzard has done this for years. They've always put in subtle or not-so-subtle nerfs to all previous content whenever releasing the next tier. BT/Hyjal, anyone? Ulduar nerfs, anyone? ToC nerfs? Hell, ICC was nerfed in stages even while it was progression. This is no surprise. The only surprise, to be honest, was that the black proto-drake was taken out of Naxx. Please consider putting it back in, blizz!


I guess that's one way to go. Personally, I'm a little more motivated because I know I don't have long to get whatever encounters down I can (doubt I'll see sinestra when it's still relevant) before it gets made obsolete by the nerfs.


I'd just like Blizzard to answer this. If they are okay with sending that message, so be it. I'll vehemently disagree, I'd just like them to comment on what I see is a dangerous precedent for the future.


Its been like that starting with Ulduar drakes not getting removed when TOC came out. I'd say that the precedent is pretty well established by now.

I doubt firelands will have a lifespan of 6 months.

At least, I hope it doesn't. No matter how amazing those 7 bosses are, 6 months is a long time to be doing the same 7 bosses week in and week out.


I hope it doesn't last that long either, but it seems something has changed about their plans for quicker content releases if these two patches are any indication.
05/24/2011 09:17 PMPosted by Hewie
Calm down Olog. One day you will graduate high school and none of this will matter to you anymore.


Actually, this is the mentality that makes weak people. I've said enough times that i'm not the best by any stretch, but I want to make better players and get better myself. Coddling does't make for strong competent people.

Back when I was in high school , I played baseball and was far from the best. I had fun and never demanded that I be the starting short stop and bat number 3 just to experience the content. If I wanted those things I had to earn them. Challenge in fun. Competition is fun. Learning and improving is fun.

The big difference between WoW and those other MMOs? 11.4 million subscribers.

Most of whom will never be hardcore raiders. A lot of whom would love to see the content, get the pretty mounts, etc.

How does it change what you did if they can also do it? Achievements list dates - it's clear who got it before and after the nerf. The only difference is you can't feel like a special, unique snowflake.


That's not the point. If people only want to see the content they would be content with an easy mode difficulty. As it is they are asking for the same rewards for less work/effort. I enjoyed normals and probably will never see heroics. That's fine.

Don't cheapen content with nerfs down the line to create the illusion of accessibility. This just makes bad players. I want to play with good players.


I 100% agree with you, I don't want my car value to drop when 2012 model comes out. This is madness.
I had to work so hard to get my car why should some scrub be able to get it for 30% less now
Something that this post touches on but doesn't address directly is the concept of making dungeons and raids easy or even soloable for the soul purpose of making the lore available to all parties. Even those of us that suck or those that simply do not value the company of their fellow players.

No question of gear or achievements or even of xp. Just an "easy" mode to allow all lore content to be available to all players under any circumstances.

Then again, I am very much an outsider in the WoW community and in the gaming community at large as the one thing I value higher than everything else is the story.

I find that the vast majority of the gamers I end up running instances with have no regard for the story whatsoever, and whenever it is interjected into an instance they usually skip it, depriving me of my sought after gaming experience.

So yeah, how about an instance setting called "Story Mode", in which there is no gear to be attained, so that people like me can experience the lore of these instances as we wish to? Instead of being iron railed into losing the lore experience by the hardcore instance runners who are all about numbers, time and meters?
I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


If you want to go back and run The Eye for Ashes of Al'ar you're welcome to do so, and I don't think you'll need a 20% nerf to help.



This is a poor analogy; ashes of al'ar is a < 1% drop that one person gets. The dark phoenix mount is handed to anyone who is in the guild of a group that has killed normal raid bosses.

The point here is that nerfing the content this hard and leaving the mount in turns it into something like bronze drake from wrath where anyone who levels up and runs a dungeon gets it.

I also find it annoying that the unique looking mount comes from killing normal mode bosses, but for doing all the heroic raids and achievements for this tier you get a drake that is identical to 3 other cata drakes, one of which is from TB badges.

Really should've switched the dark phoenix and east wind drake in my opinion, but its late now and hopefully blizz will put in a decent reward for the firelands heroic bosses that doesnt look like the mount that some casual who logs in once a week is riding.
just because blizzard does not give you the "answer" you want does not mean they are wrong

personally for me the only fight that needed nerfing was 10 man alkir



If you want to go back and run The Eye for Ashes of Al'ar you're welcome to do so, and I don't think you'll need a 20% nerf to help.



This is a poor analogy; ashes of al'ar is a < 1% drop that one person gets. The dark phoenix mount is handed to anyone who is in the guild of a group that has killed normal raid bosses.

The point here is that nerfing the content this hard and leaving the mount in turns it into something like bronze drake from wrath where anyone who levels up and runs a dungeon gets it.

I also find it annoying that the unique looking mount comes from killing normal mode bosses, but for doing all the heroic raids and achievements for this tier you get a drake that is identical to 3 other cata drakes, one of which is from TB badges.

Really should've switched the dark phoenix and east wind drake in my opinion, but its late now and hopefully blizz will put in a decent reward for the firelands heroic bosses that doesnt look like the mount that some casual who logs in once a week is riding.




When TOC came out, getting Ulduar drakes became easy mode. When ICC came out, getting Ulduar drakes became a joke. How is this any different?
[quote]
I 100% agree with you, I don't want my car value to drop when 2012 model comes out. This is madness.
I had to work so hard to get my car why should some scrub be able to get it for 30% less now


The value is in the experience not the item. Your 2011 model will be worth less when the new models come out, but to get the new model you have to work just as hard to get it as you did your old 2011, or you can sell your old 2011 and put the money towards a 2012.

See, your effort now is an investment into your activities tomorrow. By doing the content now you (theoretically) should have prepared for tomorrow. That is how levels/progression works and if the experience is nerfed people will never learn and never get better myself included.

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