Raid Updates for 4.2

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I don't want to be able to go into there and carry bad players, I want the bad players to learn to pick themselves up and get better.


I want to play with fun people. I do not care if they are "bad" or "good" I would rather spend an hour with a total n00b who is funny and laugh and enjoy then with a jerk who is a great player.

I have done this in every MMORPG I have played, from EQ to WOW. The challenge gets old (or maybe at some point you grow up) and then you realize this really is just a way to pass time. Its not life or death.

Edit -spelling


New players are not bad in my definition. They are new. New players can be taught and improve. It's the old players that aren't new, that should know how things work but refuse to imput any effort into the game, who want to just press a single button with god mode on and beat the game that I term bad players.

Like I said. Bads are a small minority of the player base. Average players are a much bigger majority. Stop catering to bads.

EDIT: Challenge should never get old really. It should inspire you to reach new heights to overcome said challenge. If it doesn't, then you need a change of scenery, ie, a different game, not for the challenge to disappear.
Although this nerf doesn't really affect me since my guild is starting on hardmodes now. I have to agree with Totalbiscuit here. Blizzard is doing this for casual guilds, but I feel its more anti casual. I run a semi-casual guild that only raids two nights a week, and we pretty much agree that the content is not fun if its easy. All these nerfs do is pressure casual guilds to beat the content before the nerfs come in. I honestly, have felt this pressure and this change really hurts casual guilds more than anything. The majority of people that I know and have not downed the raid content, have not downed it because they have not tried or do not have the time to raid, not because its too hard. This content really isn't that hard. It just takes time to learn, but if you don't even have to learn anything and bosses just look at you and hang themselves, what fun is there in that.
I don't like this one bit. My guild has not cleared either of the raids, due to attendance issues, I'd hate to have another faceroll raid like Naxx. What Blizzard should be doing is finding ways to help the bad players to step up their game, not lower the bar to their standard where I just want to fall asleep in the raid. Also, don't think that saying, "oh, it's old content so everyone can see it now," is trash. Did you stop raiding Ulduar when ToC came out? Raiding guilds won't stop raiding the lower tier for some time. I also don't like the fact that it's a single raid dungeon with only two difficulties. The leaps between heroic difficulties and normal is a very large chasm that us middle player base, which is the majority, can't leap over. The tbc model with multiple raids was done right, and Ulduar with multiple difficulty settings was right as well. How long am I going to stare at a fired up barren landscape with only 7 bosses to kill over and over until the next patch?
05/24/2011 08:55 PMPosted by Darmas
Although this nerf doesn't really affect me since my guild is starting on hardmodes now. I have to agree with Totalbiscuit here. Blizzard is doing this for casual guilds, but I feel its more anti casual. I run a semi-casual guild that only raids two nights a week, and we pretty much agree that the content is not fun if its easy. All these nerfs do is pressure casual guilds to beat the content before the nerfs come in. I honestly, have felt this pressure and this change really hurts casual guilds more than anything. The majority of people that I know and have not downed the raid content, have not downed it because they have not tried or do not have the time to raid, not because its too hard. This content really isn't that hard. It just takes time to learn, but if you don't even have to learn anything and bosses just look at you and hang themselves, what fun is there in that.


^ this. A hundred times this.
05/24/2011 08:45 PMPosted by Davoodoomon
times not an issue the issue comes in when the casual players begin to feel entitled to see endgame bosses be defeated by them. if times so much of an issue then just go for the low hanging fruit in raids like the opening bosses or argoloth. its not fair that people who do devote the time to try and enjoy the content get punished because people like you complain about only having six seconds a day to play and thus now people who actually devote more time to the game now only get to enjoy content that is barely fun or challenging. I'm a casual too however i dont care if i may never down heroic sinestra im perfectly fine with doing slow progressions with my guild when I can. and plus screw more content if all i and everyone else gets is content that can be done very easily and provides no challenge that I need to improve my skill to beat.


Sorry but I don't think blizzard is worried about your feelings. They rather have our money. We will still be behind you, don't worry.
ya thats the problem you hit it the nail on the head with the

05/24/2011 09:00 PMPosted by Hakkai
They rather have our money.


that is their mindset and that is why this game is going downhill
Good Job Blizzard, you continue to give the incompetent players the idea that they don't need to improve themselves to content that anyone with half a brain can do, they just have to wait long enough till something like this happens and they can faceroll their way to shiny purples they wanted because they refused to be competent, nerfing raids is just another step towards the mistake WotlK made, which blizzard has clearly stated is something they wanted to avoid from happening again.
Sorry but I don't think blizzard is worried about your feelings. They [would] rather have our money.

I added a word there to help the sentence be complete.

Blizzard has many irrational ways to get our money, including the pets and mounts in store and charging us for server transfer.

Blizzard is losing subs due to many things within the game as well as more interesting and new games coming out. This is not helping at all.
ya thats the problem you hit it the nail on the head with the

They rather have our money.


that is their mindset and that is why this game is going downhill



No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.
05/24/2011 09:04 PMPosted by Vikku
Sorry but I don't think blizzard is worried about your feelings. They [would] rather have our money.

I added a word there to help the sentence be complete.

Blizzard has many irrational ways to get our money, including the pets and mounts in store and charging us for server transfer.

Blizzard is losing subs due to many things within the game as well as more interesting and new games coming out. This is not helping at all.


Sorry but I don't think blizzard is worried about your feelings. They rather have our money.
Well at least mages wont ever need to use spell steal i guess it's a pvp only spell now a day.
No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.

Go watch Total Biscuits Azeroth Daily shows. Their mindset (and yours it would seem) is not right in this instance.
Releasing more content (rehashed or new) at a faster rate has a tendency to ruin the quality the game play could have. Releasing patches faster and expansion packs faster will let the quality of the game fall to levels below what we would normally expect from WoW, thereby letting the player base fall. Which is the opposite of what they want.

ALSO: they're= they are there=over that way and their=possessive. Learn the difference.
05/24/2011 09:10 PMPosted by Vikku
No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.

Go watch Total Biscuits Azeroth Daily shows. Their mindset (and yours it would seem) is not right in this instance.
Releasing more content (rehashed or new) at a faster rate has a tendency to ruin the quality the game play could have. Releasing patches faster and expansion packs faster will let the quality of the game fall to levels below what we would normally expect from WoW, thereby letting the player base fall. Which is the opposite of what they want.

ALSO: they're= they are there=over that way and their=possessive. Learn the difference.


No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.
No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.[/quote]

No, but they will quit if they start raiding for the first time and don't find it fun because its too easy. I don't see how this arguement is valid since they have been using this tactic since wrath's start into cataclysm (on heroic 5 mans) and they have lost members. Obviously, its not working. In all seriousness they are pushing semi-casual members to be on more than two nights a week so they can avoid the nerfed content, and making the game not fun for the people the few supercasual people that don't currently raid because it is "too hard." I say few supercasual people, because most people that I know that haven't completed the content, haven't completed it because. . . A: they have real life time constraints and are mature enough to know they don't have the time to raid at the moment (so they get to come back to watered down content). B: They are perfectly content doing dailies, proffessions, and heroics.
Thank blizzard ruin the game more, this will definitely lose you more subscribers.

Nerf more content for the people who can't move out of fire, interrupt a construct, jump platform to platform. Great job there make people worse instead of them making better by nerfing everything
05/24/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Hakkai
No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.


but why are the people getting bored with the raids? its because of blizzard doing stuff like this where the raids get nerfed into a complete cakewalk for everyone. And the reason they do this? because like you said they only care for the money and its because of entitled casual players threatening to unsub and thus them losing money that blizzard is making all these nerfs. and the problem is with people seeing older content is that now none of us ever get to go back and see that great content for what it used to be and it teaches people that all raids are this easy so we have ICC again with people standing in the fire because they dont know any better and that if you want to beat the content instead of trying just wait a bit and it will be made easier for you.
Posted by Vikku

No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.


Go watch Total Biscuits Azeroth Daily shows. Their mindset (and yours it would seem) is not right in this instance.
Releasing more content (rehashed or new) at a faster rate has a tendency to ruin the quality the game play could have. Releasing patches faster and expansion packs faster will let the quality of the game fall to levels below what we would normally expect from WoW, thereby letting the player base fall. Which is the opposite of what they want.

ALSO: they're= they are there=over that way and their=possessive. Learn the difference.



No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.

I stick by my former comment, just as you did when you simply reposted it.
Quite frankly, nerfing old content is a slap in the face to people who did it while it was hard, the prestige of having "Defender of a shattered world", however slim, will be completely destroyed.
It also seems like you are trying to reuse content that people seem to be tired of. How about instead of nerfing everything and reusing content, you use the 6 month timeframe to make more raid bosses? 7 bosses after 6+ months is just pathetic. If you dont cancel these nerfs, and dont bring out a large amount of fresh content I'll be cancelling subscription, and encouraging others to do the same.
One more thing, 4.1 shouldnt have even been a patch on its own, it is 2 instances that didnt even affect the majority of content-starved raiders, and to me it is a money grab, allowing you to move on to the next expansion after only 3 raid tiers. This, combined with the new "premium" services makes me want to unsub right now.
never raid anyway so don't care because it doesn't affect me.

sad that TB is leaving tho... (although mainly watch his SC2 content anyway, not az daily)
Posted by Vikku

No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.


Go watch Total Biscuits Azeroth Daily shows. Their mindset (and yours it would seem) is not right in this instance.
Releasing more content (rehashed or new) at a faster rate has a tendency to ruin the quality the game play could have. Releasing patches faster and expansion packs faster will let the quality of the game fall to levels below what we would normally expect from WoW, thereby letting the player base fall. Which is the opposite of what they want.

ALSO: they're= they are there=over that way and their=possessive. Learn the difference.



No there losing people because there is no content besides heroics and battlegrounds for people that can't actively raid. I'm sure it will do nothing but increase population if they make old tier raiding available to pick up groups. Will people really quit if other people are getting to see old content? No probably not, and if they did quit it's for the better.

I stick by my former comment, just as you did when you simply reposted it.

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