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To the poster above me:

It really sounds like Wrath all over again. Level to 85, then grind heroic, after heroic, after heroic, after heroic, then... another heroic, heroic x10 more, until you have aquired enough VP to buy your valor gear, skip the first level of raiding completely.

One of the great things about BC (I am not a hard core raider, and never made it past t5) is that I actually was able to progress. I did my heroics. I did Kara/Gruuls/Mags, then I went and worked on SSC/TK/ZA. And it was great. Other players were in almost full t6 when I started raiding, but that was fine.

What is not fine, is getting "cheap codes" (welfare epics) that you need to grind heroics endlessly for, then have one, and only one raid to look forward to to raiding for the next 5+ months.

Making previous tier's of raiding obsolete takes so much out of the game, and makes it dull. My subscription is up in about 2 weeks, and I am zero desire to play anymore because of these reasons and more.
05/24/2011 03:59 PMPosted by Solaru
No...I read your post. You are putting forward the misconception the Casual = Bad and that Hardcore = Good. No matter you intentions, you are wrong on this point.
Ummmm NO? I didn't get that from his post at all....

btw, I love it, OP.
Loot tables available without wowhead or wowwiki checks. I kind of like that.

Glad an intro level of raiding is being introduced.

Been a rocky couple of months, but I'm hoping the community pulls back together.
With the current setup it seems like we're the bad guys going in and messing with your stuff, and that view is somewhat based on not really including the new harder tier in the equation since it's not available yet.
explain last half please or repost it as... it appears to be somewhat confusing o-0
05/24/2011 05:53 PMPosted by Bashiok
And does that mean that if it's supposed to be a stair step that we're still going to be encouraged to do the old "Stairs" beyond if we're helping with the legendary chain?


If you've completed Blackwing Descent/Bastion of Twilight then you should focus on Firelands (you're ready to step up), but if you haven't yet seen most or any of BWD/BoT we want to make sure you're able to as soon as 4.2 comes out - not spend weeks running dungeons and grabbing the new gear before you can start progressing.


What's "completed"? All normals done once? All normals on farm? Most hardmodes done? All hardmodes done? All hardmodes on farm? Sinestra too? Have the meta for doing all hardmodes and achivements for T11 content?
05/27/2011 03:08 PMPosted by Yiffyton
It really sounds like Wrath all over again. Level to 85, then grind heroic, after heroic, after heroic, after heroic, then... another heroic, heroic x10 more, until you have aquired enough VP to buy your valor gear, skip the first level of raiding completely.

Um, no.

That was one of the worst parts about TBC, having to do outdated content.. just to get in to relevant content, usually taking weeks just to get in to the outdated raids in the first place, and more weeks just to get in to relevant raids.

Horrid system.


Its a horrid system to progress through content? Its a good system to grind endless heroics for badge gear, just so you can skip to what is the latest content, essentially making any and all old content obsolete?

I like the step progression system, and most people I talk to and have mentioned anything about it, like it too. Grinding heroics is such a tedious process and I wish they would go back to the old method of: Raiding gets you raid gear.
One of the great things about BC (I am not a hard core raider, and never made it past t5) is that I actually was able to progress. I did my heroics. I did Kara/Gruuls/Mags, then I went and worked on SSC/TK/ZA. And it was great. Other players were in almost full t6 when I started raiding, but that was fine.

What is not fine, is getting "cheap codes" (welfare epics) that you need to grind heroics endlessly for, then have one, and only one raid to look forward to to raiding for the next 5+ months.

Making previous tier's of raiding obsolete takes so much out of the game, and makes it dull. My subscription is up in about 2 weeks, and I am zero desire to play anymore because of these reasons and more.


Agreed.
[quote="25801668548"]

The content has been out quite a while, there's no reason to make people wait and spend even more time running dungeons to grab the new gear before they can start on raid content they haven't seen yet.


so people that never even raid will be able to go straight to firelands? That's exactly what so many people hated in Wotlk. I'm not even going to concern myself with trying to run alt runs in my guild, why would I, in 4.2 I can run a few heroics & be completely 359. So basically you can go from blue gear to firelands. Awesome.
One of the great things about BC (I am not a hard core raider, and never made it past t5) is that I actually was able to progress. I did my heroics. I did Kara/Gruuls/Mags, then I went and worked on SSC/TK/ZA. And it was great. Other players were in almost full t6 when I started raiding, but that was fine.

What is not fine, is getting "cheap codes" (welfare epics) that you need to grind heroics endlessly for, then have one, and only one raid to look forward to to raiding for the next 5+ months.

Making previous tier's of raiding obsolete takes so much out of the game, and makes it dull. My subscription is up in about 2 weeks, and I am zero desire to play anymore because of these reasons and more.


Agreed.
Why do people think can equip EVERY SINGLE SLOT with JP in 4.2?
Do you want to be in FULL 359 then you have to actually raid.

Things You have to Raid for 359

Helm
Shoulder
Neck
Wrists
Feet
Weapons
2nd Trinket
2nd Ring

Note: Does not Include BoE's and stuff from the Vendor isn't always BiS.
05/28/2011 03:42 PMPosted by Yiffyton
Its a horrid system to progress through content?

Not outdated content, snorefest.

Its a good system to grind endless heroics for badge gear

Much better than grinding outdated raids.

old content obsolete?

Isn't it obsolete anyways?

I like the step progression system

I don't.

Raiding gets you raid gear.

Even if said raids give you massively obsolete gear?


Most of these reasons are pretty silly and make no sense. Such as "even if said raids give you massively obsolete gear?" If I am working on t5 content, just because someone else has t6, doesn't mean my t4/t5 gear is obsolete. Sounds like you are an individual that feels very entitled, and like to get to the end of games on easy mode or god mode. I suggest trying to play a game on something harder then the "cuddly bear" difficulty level. You might actually feel a sense of accomplishment after completing it.

Being GIVEN t6 gear just to jump ahead in the game without progressing is a lame, cheap, cheat code given by blizzard that has ruined raiding.

There is a reason why BC was so popular, and that Wrath and Cata have been a down hill tumble in terms of raiding.
Your metaphors are magical.

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