Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide

Druid
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So I had an idea. What do you think about having a second talent set with LS? With the heavy movement on gunship, Morchok, and Hagara it could be beneficial. And I'm not really seeing a downside on using it in those fights.

So what do you think, should we be running with LS for certain encounters this tier?
So I had an idea. What do you think about having a second talent set with LS? With the heavy movement on gunship, Morchok, and Hagara it could be beneficial. And I'm not really seeing a downside on using it in those fights.

So what do you think, should we be running with LS for certain encounters this tier?


I saw someone else mention it earlier, actually, and it did occur to me while I was running around on Hagara, spamming dots on the adds during ice phase, that it would be really nice to have LS right around now.

I think if you have the luxury of being able to run dual moonkin specs (ie you're not a backup healer/tank), it's definitely not a bad idea. I haven't seen spine or madness yet, but I guess spine has a lot of multidotting? There's no other fight really where I think it would cause a problem having it - even on gunship, I'm not convinced dot cleaving is the best way to go as a moonkin, since dragons need to die fast (unless your main goal is to pad meters).

I'm considering dropping my feral spec for the time being and trying it out, since I only go cat for heroics sometimes when I'm bored. But you do lose the chance to double-respec to reset your eclipse bar if you run dual moonkin specs (it's a small thing, but sometimes it can save your !@# if you weren't planning ahead on trash).
12/02/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Eluial
I haven't seen spine or madness yet, but I guess spine has a lot of multidotting?
It can. Since you don't want to killl the slimes too soon because that makes the tank die there isn't a lot of time to multi-dot, and when you do you are really using it for the DD since slimes have so little health.



12/02/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Eluial
There's no other fight really where I think it would cause a problem having it
I'm thinking Yorsahj might not be the best time for it, but then again the adds don't really live long so it might be best to hurricane them instead of multi-dotting.

Edit: On another note, since you seem to be in the same boat as me with no heroic T12 helm, do you think it would be worth it to pick up the heroic token for your off-set T12 pieces(legs/shoulders) and picking up the T13 normal helm?
Edit: On another note, since you seem to be in the same boat as me with no heroic T12 helm, do you think it would be worth it to pick up the heroic token for your off-set T12 pieces(legs/shoulders) and picking up the T13 normal helm?

I wasn't planning to, and I don't think it would be worth it. The tier 13 legs are pretty fricken amazing, with spi/haste and 3 red gem slots, so I'll be grabbing those ASAP. From there, I don't think the stat gain from 1 reg T12 piece to 1 reg T13 piece + 2pcT13 would offset the loss of the T12 4pc bonus. Especially since there aren't a lot of fights this tier that rely on solar camping and dot cleave.

But that said, I haven't put it into wrathcalcs or anything.
12/02/2011 01:04 PMPosted by Tagartou
I haven't seen spine or madness yet, but I guess spine has a lot of multidotting?


Almost none. The slimes die in about 1 gcd from your dps. If you dot them 1. you won't get any dot ticks and 2. if you dot one far away it's taxing on your tank to run the Amalgamation over the slimes body to stack the buff. The slimes basically come out 1 at a time. I don't remember having more than 2 up at once, except for when we did the first barrell roll. We had our warrior cleave the slimes while most of us just nuked the Amalgamation down to 5-10%.

As fun as the fight is, it's pretty ugly on the meters.
12/02/2011 11:55 AMPosted by Tagartou
So what do you think, should we be running with LS for certain encounters this tier?


I put that as a question for the moonkin live chat. Hopefully they mention it :) Hamlet seems to say no on Elitist Jerks, but who knows.
So after a downing of Ultraxion tonight, I was feeling pretty down about my numbers. Just looking for any advice I can get for fights like this.

Here's a link to the log of the fight: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fnh2jyt4gyffkb79/dashboard/?s=4985&e=5342
So haven't been lucky yet with any set drops, but wondering whether it'd be worth replacing my old T11 pieces with non-set 378 gear?
Couple of random questions:

Let's say I recently finished casting the wrath that will land me in lunar and I've now started my first pre-cast of starfire. As I'm doing this, I notice that my solar-buffed IS and SF have fallen off. However, starfall is also off CD.

Is it more beneficial to
1) Refresh dots before using starfall, to have a higher overall dot uptime. (Which is what I do, probably not least because most other toons I play are also heavily dot-dependant, so keeing dots up is instinctual for me.)

2) Starfall first, and only then do I refresh dots, so I don't waste a gcd during Nature's Grace doing it.

It probably doesn't make that much of a difference, but I find myself in similar scenarios every now and then, and it always leaves me unsure about which one was the right choice. =/


Another thing - As I'm casting the final starfire that will put me in Solar, and starsurge is off CD, is it better to queue starsurge or wrath first? I always do wrath, because the few times I queue starsurge, it ends up proccing, so I cast an instant starsurge right as I finish my starfire, causing it to consume 15 solar energy but not be eclipsed :( Maybe it's just my bad luck, or I'm only remembering the bad times, but I don't know which choice has mathematically been proven to be better so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks in advance :)
12/02/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Eluial
But you do lose the chance to double-respec to reset your eclipse bar if you run dual moonkin specs


!@#$ you can do that?! And until now I've always been taking off all my gear and jumping in lava to reset it >.<
Couple of random questions:

Let's say I recently finished casting the wrath that will land me in lunar and I've now started my first pre-cast of starfire. As I'm doing this, I notice that my solar-buffed IS and SF have fallen off. However, starfall is also off CD.

Is it more beneficial to
1) Refresh dots before using starfall, to have a higher overall dot uptime. (Which is what I do, probably not least because most other toons I play are also heavily dot-dependant, so keeing dots up is instinctual for me.)

2) Starfall first, and only then do I refresh dots, so I don't waste a gcd during Nature's Grace doing it.

It probably doesn't make that much of a difference, but I find myself in similar scenarios every now and then, and it always leaves me unsure about which one was the right choice. =/


Another thing - As I'm casting the final starfire that will put me in Solar, and starsurge is off CD, is it better to queue starsurge or wrath first? I always do wrath, because the few times I queue starsurge, it ends up proccing, so I cast an instant starsurge right as I finish my starfire, causing it to consume 15 solar energy but not be eclipsed :( Maybe it's just my bad luck, or I'm only remembering the bad times, but I don't know which choice has mathematically been proven to be better so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks in advance :)



Queue your starfall first, its only a 10 second spell and even though its just 1 GCD, unless you are using glyph of starsurge you're more than likely not having starfall come of CD every time you hit lunar eclipse. Usually you wait until your first lunar to use starfall then you use it whenever it comes off CD. so the GCD that you use isn't any real loss of DoT uptime over the course of a fight.

As for when you are deciding whether to queue wrath or starsurge as the first spell when you hit solar, queue wrath, just like queuing starfire when you are waiting for that last wrath to proc you to lunar you don't want to waste the SS on the chance that it might hit before your eclipse buff is active. If you cast 1 wrath then let your SS go you should never have a problem with casting an uneclipsed SS while in solar. this also gets rid of the problem of having shooting stars proc while your last starfire is casting. and remember your shooting stars buff is 12 seconds long so you can afford to cast a spell or two and still not lose out of much dps instead of casting SS the instant the buff procs

Hope that helps
So after a downing of Ultraxion tonight, I was feeling pretty down about my numbers. Just looking for any advice I can get for fights like this.

Here's a link to the log of the fight: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fnh2jyt4gyffkb79/dashboard/?s=4985&e=5342


I'm not incredibly experienced at analyzing logs so if someone else wants to comment and correct me go for it.

The only thing that is immediately out of place to me is your incredibly high dot uptime. Our dots are great, don't get me wrong, but it seems to me that you're so focused on keeping them up that you might be refreshing at poor times. Don't be afraid to push to the next eclipse and wait to refresh them then if they expire just before you get there.

Best of luck in DS!
I was also very disappointed with my numbers on Ultraxion, I do not have a link to the fight but if you could check out my spec and gear to see what I could change that would be great! (note: I do have 378 shoulders of the wavecrest, don't know if those or current ones are better)
12/05/2011 08:54 AMPosted by Shiftingcow
I was also very disappointed with my numbers on Ultraxion, I do not have a link to the fight but if you could check out my spec and gear to see what I could change that would be great! (note: I do have 378 shoulders of the wavecrest, don't know if those or current ones are better)


How much dps did you do?

You're missing your leg enchant and the bracer enchant is inferior (you need +50 int). You need to reforge your Rune of Zeth to Haste still. DMF:V would still be a superior trinket over that 365 from brewfest if you can buy it.

I'd reverse the reforge on the shoulders and reforge them from Crit to Haste and then reforge the Crit on the belt to Spirit for hit cap. I would also take the purified gems out of the chest and just put 2 brilliant for a boost of 20 spell power while losing 40 hit that you shouldn't need. Also don't forget your professions. Since you have herbalism, alchemy would be an obvious choice to net an easy 80 intellect. It's probably the cheapest of the crafting professions to level and gives the same benefit. You can technically level alchemy for only the cost of vials with your herb skill already 540, just takes some grinding.

Doing that should net you quite a bit of haste (from the trinket alone).

I think your spec is fine. Some will say get out of Lunar Shower, but I don't see it as a big deal. I don't think you're losing any dps with it on this fight since technically it shouldn't proc since you aren't moving.
Woo, missed a lot while I was out of town. Let's see if I can get all of it in one post.

12/02/2011 01:56 PMPosted by Khalador
So what do you think, should we be running with LS for certain encounters this tier?


Having finally seen all the encounters on normal, but not having yet listened to the podcast, my conclusion is I'm going to try out LS this coming week. There wasn't a single encounter where I'd say I'd be at a serious disadvantage. The only encounter where I really found myself spam dotting was madness, and even then, it was on those little single-target add guys, so it wouldn't be a problem to have LS there. I only ever delayed my eclipse for a few seconds, in order to stay in solar during blood boil or w/e it was called.

Probably gong to try something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0IfMdRhMkouZRcu as my second spec.

12/03/2011 09:37 PMPosted by Velaniz
But you do lose the chance to double-respec to reset your eclipse bar if you run dual moonkin specs


!@#$ you can do that?! And until now I've always been taking off all my gear and jumping in lava to reset it >.<
Yep, but it only works if your second spec is not balance.


So after a downing of Ultraxion tonight, I was feeling pretty down about my numbers. Just looking for any advice I can get for fights like this.

Here's a link to the log of the fight: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fnh2jyt4gyffkb79/dashboard/?s=4985&e=5342

So, I'm actually having kind of a hard time analyzing your log there, because I think something funny happens to combat logs when you realm-shift. There are some buffs that it isn't tracking correctly (like, it says you had time warp for almost 5 mins).

One thing to try is refreshing your dots twice in solar and once in lunar, so you always have NG and eclipse-buffed dots. The way that works is you refresh close to the beginning of solar, and then once again during solar BEFORE NG falls off. The next time you refresh will be in lunar when your current dots fall off (usually around halfway through), which should last you again til the beginning of solar.

Let's say I recently finished casting the wrath that will land me in lunar and I've now started my first pre-cast of starfire. As I'm doing this, I notice that my solar-buffed IS and SF have fallen off. However, starfall is also off CD.

Is it more beneficial to
1) Refresh dots before using starfall, to have a higher overall dot uptime. (Which is what I do, probably not least because most other toons I play are also heavily dot-dependant, so keeing dots up is instinctual for me.)

2) Starfall first, and only then do I refresh dots, so I don't waste a gcd during Nature's Grace doing it.

How about a 3rd option, which I prefer. If starfall is up when you hit lunar and your dots have just fallen off, cast it on the tail end of your last wrath. It's *possible* that the first star won't be buffed, but the rest of them will be, and then you can cast your dots right after without having to cast a starfire first. So, it's a GCD between your last wrath and your dots instead of a starfire cast.

12/03/2011 09:32 PMPosted by Velaniz
Another thing - As I'm casting the final starfire that will put me in Solar, and starsurge is off CD, is it better to queue starsurge or wrath first?

I usually do wrath, just because of exactly what you mentioned with the proc. It happens often enough that it's just not a big deal to wait 1 more cast to get SS out.

12/05/2011 08:54 AMPosted by Shiftingcow
I was also very disappointed with my numbers on Ultraxion, I do not have a link to the fight but if you could check out my spec and gear to see what I could change that would be great! (note: I do have 378 shoulders of the wavecrest, don't know if those or current ones are better)

Well, mostly what Khalador said (except I'm not certain who would say to get LS for ultraxion or why they would say it...). For your shoulders, if you have wavecrest, mastery/spi is definitely better than mastery/crit, so I'd say use them. But your gear needs a lot of work in general. I'd also suggest using glyph of focus for ultraxion.
12/05/2011 12:13 PMPosted by Eluial
Having finally seen all the encounters on normal, but not having yet listened to the podcast, my conclusion is I'm going to try out LS this coming week. There wasn't a single encounter where I'd say I'd be at a serious disadvantage.


They said "no" and just moved on. They didn't say why not to use it. It was a great podcast about PVP moonkins and they should really do a PVE discussion someday. Cwatidid?

It's my understanding that Lunar Shower was not taken because it was advantageous for us to sit in Lunar and spam Sunfire on adds and use mushrooms without moving the eclipse bar. So now that there's no reason to delay an eclipse, why wouldn't we take it? We have filler points and it could be picked up without a dps loss.

I'm also going to make a spec with it and try it out for this coming lock out.
12/05/2011 12:13 PMPosted by Eluial
Well, mostly what Khalador said (except I'm not certain who would say to get LS for ultraxion or why they would say it...).


I didn't say for him to get lunar shower, he already had it. I was just saying I know a lot of people will look at his spec and say "drop lunar shower" and I'm saying dropping it isn't going to help/hurt his #s. It's not a dps gain or loss with or without it because he literally won't move an inch on that fight.
12/05/2011 12:53 PMPosted by Khalador
Well, mostly what Khalador said (except I'm not certain who would say to get LS for ultraxion or why they would say it...).


I didn't say for him to get lunar shower, he already had it. I was just saying I know a lot of people will look at his spec and say "drop lunar shower" and I'm saying dropping it isn't going to help/hurt his #s. It's not a dps gain or loss with or without it because he literally won't move an inch on that fight.


Ah. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying some people would say he should take it, but you were advising it wouldn't make a difference on that fight (which I agreed with). So I was confused by what you said other people would say, not what you actually said, if that makes any sense :P

Also, that's a shame about the podcast, but thanks for letting me know. Saves me about 3 hours of listening to it.
They said "no" and just moved on. They didn't say why not to use it. It was a great podcast about PVP moonkins and they should really do a PVE discussion someday. Cwatidid?
Ehh, they did concede that on a fight like Hagara HM it might be worth it. Unfortunately Faluiris and Diziet kinda dominated the conversation. Hamlet didn't say much and I think Murmurs was too preoccupied talking in chat than actually discussing PvE. Though they did cover some important stuff it seemed like a lot more PvP was covered.

Personally I don't see any fights where it would be a harm except Yorshahj(We single target the bloods in packs to take 2+ down at a time) and there are definitely fights with way too much movement and too frequent movement that laying shrooms won't cut it. So I'm definitely adjusting my second spec from a PvP spec to a PvE Lunar Shower.

Also to anyone who might see this, Raid Finder Insignia of the corrupted mind is better than Heroic NF, Regular VPLC, and DMC:V(though this could be highly dependent on your haste level). So you might want to go try for it if you didn't get the normal version.
12/05/2011 09:39 AMPosted by Khalador
I don't think you're losing any dps with it on this fight since technically it shouldn't proc since you aren't moving.
LS stacks on repetitive casts now, not movement.

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