Call to Arms: Alterac Valley Classic

Battlegrounds
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Bump for justice.
We need this to go viral somehow, tell your friends/guildmates about this thread. Even post it in trade or something. Show your dedication to bring back some of the greatest online experiences you have ever had.
Much bumpage from an old lock who misses 2+ hour matches where my damage was in the millions in BC.
Hmmmm, interesting idea. I like the concept of it, but I'd worry about a mass exodus on one side putting them at a severe disadvantage. Maybe after 30min open up a "get me out of here" queue. So long as there is someone waiting to get in to take your place, you can leave without a deserter debuff. That way people can come and go without fear of all of a sudden being outmanned 40-25 just because the side that is losing at the moment (or feels like hope is lost) decides to bail.


See, this is why teamwork = win.

Let's see if we can't polish this idea further.
i been thinking about it and i cant decide if blizzard developers dont care that their content isnt fun or if they are just inept at map design and actually think their battleground content is as they would put it "compelling".
in the end the company is just that, a company. Take any business class and lesson 1 is that the single sole reason for ANY cooperation to exist is to get shareholders money. That is it. I find it hard to believe that the developers would be so inept as to think their 40 man Bgs are actually fun, so that leaves me with that they just...don't...care...

When the developers stop caring about their creation you can tell in the content they release, it gets steadily worse and worse. This is starting to happen, i believe, to wow.

blizzard, prove me wrong.. fix Av and Fix Gy camping in isle and wsg. give me something to do when i'm not raiding please before i get bored and go play planetside2.
I've seen numerous threads about fixing AV and bringing it back to Classic mode...mostly highly praised and very large threads... Yet patch after patch, major 'fixes' to AV go unseen.

This would get even more widespread in general forums.. but probably moved right back to BG forums unfortunately...

A while back there was a good 25+ page thread full of astounding ideas to "fix" AV. It merely got moved to PVP discussion without a single reply.

This was posted somewhere in that thread which is now deleted...

Back in old AV i remember:

-Turning in gallons of blood to summon elemental lords

-Turning in flesh after finding, and freeing your 3 wing commanders so you'd have an air assault on the enemy choke points, but only if you had the correct reputation level!

-Turning in enough mine supplies to get a contract/orders to give to a group of extremely deadly soldiers that charged all the way from the field of strife to the doorstep of the enemy general.

-Consequently I also remember when the mobs in the mines had regular loot tables and you'd occasionally see epics pop up for rolling in the loot window (Lei of Lillies am I right?)

-Armor scraps which gave you better armed units, as well as human bone chips, and night elf heads you turned into the troll bounty hunter who now just sits in the village.

-I remember Korrack the Bloodrager smashing level 51 lowbies as they rode by unaware of his fierce territoriality.

-I remember the names of nearly every single bunker captain, or lt, or even the elites outside
walking around (Oh Grummis how I miss thee)

-I remember the field of strife HAD LANDMINES IN IT SO YOU COULDN'T JUST RUN ACROSS IT!

-I remember the syndicate with their shadowy plot, and a goblin you could save who would in return for some mats give you...

-A shredder. I remember hearing, and seeing HEAL THE SHREDDER all the time.

-I remember collecting wolfs, and ram harnesses, and making a charge at the filthy Stormpike with my Elite Wolf Calvary units.

-I remember that the random assorted lt's, and commanders had quest you could do.

-I remember when each inch of the bg was fought over, and bought with dozens of lives.

-I remember the regiments of dwarves with their muskets laying down suppressing fire, while the melee units would swarm down any foe foolish enough to try to take the bunker on their own.

-I remember fighting in the same BG for hours, or days at a time, and loving it without needing to be rewarded for having fun.

- I remember having leaders in the bg who knew what went where, and when to assault what.

-I remember the 4 man strike teams of 3 rogues, 1 resto druid who'd stealth to the final bunker and attempt to tag it (the only bunker with the boss outside go figure) in an effort to divert some forces away from Stonehearth so we could take it, and finally put an end to Balinda.

-I remember the huge loss it was when your lt's, champions, towers, or god forbid captains died rather than just being honor.

-Most of all I remember caring about the Battleground.
07/18/2011 06:57 PMPosted by Korbie
Most of all I remember caring about the Battleground.



This is the essence of the thing.

When AV pops on my random queue these days, I can't say I'm thrilled. I'll play it. I'll play, because I have so many fond memories of what that place used to be, but I'm not happy about it.

That's not to say I'm miserable about it.

I just don't care.

The only battleground that excites me now is Arathi Basin, and for someone who spends 90% of his game time in battlegrounds, that's sad.

That's really sad.

Bring back the glory of Classic Alterac Valley. The people have cried out for it, on and off, for years. Now is the time. This is the expansion to bring back that epic feeling of true, hard-fought victory. The reinforcements and other band-aid fixes are relics of frustrating reward systems long extinct. They aren't needed anymore. We can go back to the way things were, and discard the jury-rigged, haphazard mess of patches some call a "battleground".





Queue, run around a bit, kill some dude. Lose fast so you can just get on with it.

Depressing.
YES BRING BACK OLD AV I MISS HOW U COULD LEAVE THE FIGHT 1 DAY AND REJOIN IN IT THE NEXT
I got lured to making a WoW account because I played my friends account during the Vanilla AV days. I got hooked when I used to play in those epic battles on my hunter back in Vanilla. I didn't raid, it was before arena, and AV was my main source of fun in this game.

After the AV change, I tried arena, raiding, etc. but it always left me with a feeling of lack of epic pvp. I really long for those old AV games, where it seems like a tug of war on the mini map. It really felt like a strategic battle, where losing one tower or gaining one GY was a big step towards victory. Now, its been a while since the epic battles are gone. Bringing the old AV back would most definetly bring new life to what seems to become a sporadic and shortlived battling game.

I understand that we don't need to have 6 day long AV battles (although I would love it) However, I do agree w/ that we should remove AV from the random BG pool and place it into it's own epic BG pool. The old school AV is basically a TB/WG but with more strategy and less vehicles.

Old School AV = Awesome, bringing this back would be recovering one of WoW greatest treasures.
I think I love you.
i dont really see the point in this thread because blizz made it like this so all the baddies who just wanted gear wouldn't %!%@! and moan bout a battleground lasting for 2 days because they just wanted honor so they can get into arena's . if they took out reinforcements you would end up getting double even triple the honor you would get from the newer av. i miss when av was like a raid and it actually needed some coordination. i mean at the vary least make a diff set of bgs u can Que for where resilience doesn't do anything. basically i miss classic pvp :D

BLIZZARD BRING BACK OLD AV

PS: now ppl know forming a mob works when u want something thx for unbanning swifty
AV was my favorite battleground, and in my heart it will always be. The problem is that generally the community doesn't care for it, they just want quick honor and then to get out.

I agree with what the OP has to say here, and hope for the best with changes made to AV.
If Blizzard wanted, they could always keep the current Alterac Valley in the random BG queue and add the "Classic" version as a standalone.

The Caverns of Time offers a great format for this. There are already CoT instances and raids. Why not a CoT battleground?
A CoT battleground? Interesting! I like it very much.

Great OP, and amusing read.

I especially like the idea suggested of allowing a queue out without deserter if someone can immediately take your place. Maybe they can spawn right where you are?
BELOW IS A COMPILATION OF THE SUGGESTED CHANGES SO FAR.
If you have anything to add, please comment. I'd like to post some version of this to General under a not-obviously-battleground-forums name, but first we should edit a little.

General Changes:

- Remove Alterac Valley from the random battleground queue.

Reason: Other changes suggested here would drastically lengthen AV battles, which is unfair to players who want fast honor or who do not wish to play in AV. There are still seven other battlegrounds to choose from.

- Dramatically increase the reinforcement cap to 2000+ or remove it altogether.

Reason: Games are too short to take full advantage of quests, turn-ins, and summonable NPC's. The problem reinforcements were originally intended to solve (AV Marks taking too long to acquire) no longer exists, and as such reinforcements are no longer needed.

- Allow players who have participated in the battle for 40 minutes or longer to exit the battle without penalty as long as there is a new player available in the queue.

Reason: Not everyone agrees on how long a "long" AV match should last, and real life responsibilities often require players to step away from the game for a few minutes or more.


Non-Player Characters

- Return to the battleground all or most of the NPC's that existed in its original incarnation including Lieutenants, elite bunker/tower guards, and Trolls.

Reason: These NPC's forced players to progress through the battleground more slowly, and encouraged PvP combat in a very organic way. They also make the battleground feel more immersive, like a warzone, rather than an unimportant skirmish

- Adjust all non-elite NPC's to approach the level of difficulty of mobs in Tol Barad Peninsula. Make guards level 84 by default, levelling to 85, 86 and 87 based on turn-ins.

- Reduce the leash range of guards.

Reason: A single player should not be able to capture a graveyard. Adding tougher NPC's encourages teamwork and allows players who enjoy both PvP and PvE to experience each aspect of the game simultaneously.

- Add race and class variety to the NPC guards that spawn at graveyards and towers (for instance, add mage and shaman mobs that will sometimes polymorph or heal nearby players).

Reason: This adds a small amount of difficulty and a great deal of immersion. Surely some members of the new races such as Draenei and Goblins ought to have joined the fight by now.

- Buff NPC's to match power inflation each new arena season.

Reason: Alterac Valley is the only battleground that doesn't scale when players get better gear.

- Adjust Balinda and Galvangar to be of approximately equal difficulty by granting boss-level immunity to stuns, interrupts, etc.

- Make Balinda leash sooner to prevent players from interrupting her casts by leaving her line of sight.

Reason: If both Captains are equally difficult to kill, players will be more likely to defend their boss, thus encouraging both more fairness and more PvP.

- Prevent players from trivializing Ivus/Lokholar through simple kiting.

Reason: These bosses should play a vital role in breaking a stalemate, and killing them must require a team effort.
Reason: These bosses should play a vital role in breaking a stalemate, and killing them must require a team effort.

- Increase the time required to capture towers, bunkers and graveyards to 5 minutes.

- Remove the Warmaster/Marshal 40% buffs to nearby NPC's and return all eight of the missing Warmasters/Marshals to the battleground (For instance, when Tower Point is taken by the Alliance, their Tower Point Marshal will once again join the battle).

Reason: This provides an advantage/additional incentive for players to defend towers and bunkers. If a team controls most of the towers, their General will be very heavily defended.
Rewards:

- Add reputation rewards such trinkets with unique abilities (or bring back Marks of AV now that they neither use bag space nor are required for other purchases).

Reason: Alterac Valley reputation is not useful at high levels. Additionally, if AV is treated as a somewhat unique battleground, it stands to reason that it should have unique rewards (but not so powerful that players feel forced to grind AV rep just to get gear).

- Ensure that players who spend 30 minutes in AV earn a reasonable amount of honor, but noticeably less than players who spend an equivalent amount of time in a different battleground. Perhaps add honor gains to quest turn-ins.

Reason: Players should be rewarded for their contribution to the battle, but long AV matches must not provide better honor-per-hour than other battlegrounds, or else players will feel forced to participate.


Quality of Life Improvements:

- Change Stormpike/Frostwolf Insignia to a + Stam trinket with an interesting effect (for instance, a chance to spawn an NPC to fight for you when in AV).

Reason: The current version is outdated and awkward to use.

- Add a teleport-to-base functionality to the Stormpike/Frostwolf Tabards.

- Fix all battleground quests to ensure they are in good working order.

- Add a user interface element in the Map and/or Battleground score screen that gives players important information such as General health, capture time on graveyards and towers/bunkers and status of turn-in quests.

- Implement a few simple quests for new players to help them get acquainted with the large and complicated workings of Classic Alterac Valley. When zoning into the Valley for the first time, new players automatically receive a quest to speak to several NPC's such as their armorer, quartermaster, druids, etc. Those NPC's can then explain a little about the many ways a player can assist with the battle.

Important information that new players need to learn:

- Each tower you control adds to General's defense
- Each Captain periodically gives health and damage buffs
- Armor scraps can be turned in to buff up NPCs
- Blood/Crystals can be turned in to eventually summon a powerful Elemental Lord
- Three Wing Commanders can be rescued from opponents side of the map. If they make it back to your base you can turn in flesh/medals to initiate aerial assaults.
- Trinket (or tabard if our suggestion is taken) can be used to return to your home base for defense
- Taming wolves/rams and collecting ram/wolf hides allows players to summon a powerful cavalry charge
- Collecting mine supplies allows for a squad of reavers to be summoned

Reason: Alterac Valley is a big, scary place for new players. We were all lost in there once, and in order to shape the new recruits into capable soldiers of Stormpike and warriors of Frostwolf, they need to be shown the ropes.

Additional Notes:

- Do not add vehicle combat.

Reason: Alterac Valley is a game of Player vs Player vs Environment. It is not a game of Player vs Wall.

- Tweak minor balance issues such as the hole in the wall near West Frostwolf Tower, or adding a pair of owls beside Vanndar to match Duros and Drakan.

Reason: The AV map shouldn't be a mirror, but it ought to be fair.

- Update Drek'Thar's model to reflect the fact that he now fights from the comfort of his wheelchair.

Reason: Because it would be awesome, and because it makes sense lorewise.
Agree with pretty much everything there... This needs to be spread around anywhere people can think they can share.
Looks like you got all the suggestions I've seen, Foury. Plus a couple extra you added that I approve of. :)

The only note I would make is to clarify what you mean by the warmasters/marshalls returning to the towers. I gather that you mean for their return to coincide with a tower rebuilding? (Assuming they add that feature)

This wishlist gets the Hezza stamp of approval. Spread the word.
Foury what about suggesting that the archers in the towers have different arrow spells, like daze,fire, to get people to help fight outside of the bunker or tower instead of everyone stacking inside of the bunker?

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