Where are the RAID PUG's?

General Discussion
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06/30/2011 04:40 PMPosted by Ziryus
Honestly if you were capable of doing the content before the nerfs and you wanted to you would have done it. The content is being nerfed for the people who were incapable of running it before.


incapable? you think anyone lacks capability? i think many lack motivation. I dont think anyone lacks capability. As a human being i find it insulting to claim someone simply isnt smart enough to do this.
My gf sucks at this game. She even got in a raid guild and got into raids in wrath and cata that was current. She works 40 hours a week and fulltime school.

aka You have to put in some effort if you want something in life. Even in a game......
Keep in mind, Blizzard developers (*choughghostcrawlercough*) build this game for themselves, sure they make money off millions of players, but they are building the game so they can play for their own amusement.


Nah. When they lose another 6 million subscribers that will likely be the last of the so called "wrath babies". Then they can cut the servers down to half their number and you can run your raids and hear the echo of "where the hell is everyone" in Stormwind.
I'll take a small and friendly community over this mess...I tell a warrior to help me interrupt, he tells me I'm taking the game too seriously. I'd rather be alone in Stormwind.

Current development model actually does an insanely great job at encouraging guild play. And the community helps this movement too - even if not how they think. I'm very happy to see the game encourage static groups again. It exceeds my expectations and I wish this to continue and hopefully 'cure' the wolk syndrome that many suffer from.
06/30/2011 04:44 PMPosted by Robokapp
incapable? you think anyone lacks capability? i think many lack motivation. I dont think anyone lacks capability. As a human being i find it insulting to claim someone simply isnt smart enough to do this.


hmm.. maybe I just have less faith in humanity but yes i think there are people who literally can not complete current raid content, that's not meant as an insult it's just a statement the same as saying not everyone can do <insert chosen activity>.

And in this case incapable doesn't just imply lack of skill, lack of motivation also makes someone incapable.
I see pugs all the time. might just be your server /faction
ca·pa·bil·i·ty   /ˌkeɪpəˈbɪlɪti/ Show Spelled
[key-puh-bil-i-tee] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ties.
1. the quality of being capable; capacity; ability: His capability was unquestionable.
2. the ability to undergo or be affected by a given treatment or action: the capability of glass in resisting heat.
3. Usually, capabilities. qualities, abilities, features, etc., that can be used or developed; potential: Though dilapidated, the house has great capabilities.


look at the third one. lack of motivation affcts the end result not the capability or potential.

for example I had great difficulties seeing the adds on kil'jaeden. I always had the capability to see them. My eyesight is fine, and now I can see them just fine. I just lacked th EXPERIENCE in terms of how to look for them, what to look for etc.

my capability never changed. only the end result did.
Again, I really don't want anyone left in the dark here. And nowhere did I say or imply that a whole tier needed to be stupid easy. But how would you feel next tier(and i'm going to assume you are moderatly talented and progressed player here) that they had implemented a new philosophy for raids and normals will now be at the old heroic curve and heroics will be mind boggling hard? Because thats what they did to me with cata



Yes, the shut up thing was a typo. I went back and fixed it. Thank you for not fixating on that and overreacting, and actually taking the time to consider the context of the sentence.

I imagine we have hit the impasse where we both simply have different ideas about how much challenge raiding needs to contain to be worth our respective time. I doubt content can be tuned to find a way to satisfy both of us at the same time when it is first released, but if Blizzard does find a way, good for you.




OK i liked arguing it out with you, please jump back into this thread. Much more interesting then the antiblizzard folks in here right now
My gf sucks at this game. She even got in a raid guild and got into raids in wrath and cata that was current. She works 40 hours a week and fulltime school.

aka You have to put in some effort if you want something in life. Even in a game......


WTB pics of g/f.
06/30/2011 04:15 PMPosted by Tasida
The key issue here is that the accessibility model has been changed, drastically. I don't like the changes. I liked the Wrath model, and I don't like the Cataclysm model. You considering it an anomaly doesn't influence how I plan future expenditures of my entertainment dollars. Blizzard has lost customers, specifically in relation to Cataclysm. Blizzard has also indicated they have metrics which clearly indicate that a lot of people think that the Cataclysm content is inaccessible.


The Wrath model cost them customers too. You can see it when you look at how the number of new players stagnated compared to the growth seen in TBC. If Cataclysm had been Wrath 2.0 they would have lost me.

Its not me 'considering' it an anomaly. Vanilla/TBC/Cata were one way regarding current raid difficulity, Wrath was another. Don't need to be a statistician to see which was the odd man out.

I think this is fairly evident. Right now, even with the player loss, it seems Blizzard is content to let them run the ship into the ground and treat WoW as their own amusement park.


Ghostcrawler is the best friend the 'casuals' ever had. You guys obviously never experienced WoW with Tigole at the helm.
06/30/2011 05:04 PMPosted by Robokapp
my capability never changed. only the end result did.


Ultimately it doesn't matter why someone is unable to do something, maybe they're unable to react in a timely manner, maybe they go into seizures when they see too many flashing light or maybe they just are unwilling to do it. The end result is they are incapable of doing whatever said activity is. See number 1 if you are not motivated enough to do something you are not capable of doing it.

Nor does incapable imply a permanent condition which is what you seem to think I'm implying. There was a time when I was incapable of raiding because it didn't fit with the way I was living my life, that changed and now I do raid /shrug
Ghostcrawler is the best friend the 'casuals' ever had. You guys obviously never experienced WoW with Tigole at the helm.


Tom Chilton is the game director, not Greg Street.
06/30/2011 05:08 PMPosted by Fatowlbert
Well this one is easy...they want the best epics now, it's not about the content its about the items for them.


Yet again where did you infer accessibility=welfare epix


nowhere has that statement been in this thread. Are you so insecure about your epics that this is the first thing you think of?


Edit: i really fayul at typing tonite
I've seen quite a few on my server. Advertising anyways.
06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Sariisa
Still unsure what that means regarding the final raid (i.e. Deathwing). Do pugs not get to see him until the next expansion is released? (Not saying whether that's a good thing or not, but personally I enjoyed getting to Arthas on some of my alts without spending near as much time as I did on my main.)


In ICC we had a stacking raid buff over time which gradually made the content easier. Not saying we’ll do that exact thing again but the philosophy was around even then that everyone who wants to can eventually see the content, but it’s going to take very organized groups (which typically means raiding guilds) to see the encounters first.

06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Overture
So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game? If that is what is actually coming out of your mouth I'll save myself the time and unsub now. What a piss poor vision for your game. There are normal and heroic versions of raids for a reason. That heroic difficulty was implemented so that the two segments of the population (casual and hardcore) would both have something to do. You are now bifurcating the raiding population AGAIN, by telling casuals that they have to run around in the left overs.


Trying to label all of our players as “casual puggers” vs.” hardcore raiders” is ridiculously simplistic. Among raiders there is an enormous diversity of players. There are those who will raid virtually every night when new content is out, to guilds that raid once a week (and even then will cancel raid nights fairly commonly). If you must try to label raiders, you’d be closer to the Blizzard model if you said normal mode is for organized raids, heroic mode is for more hardcore organized raids, and the previous tier of content (and Baradin Hold) is targeted for pick-up groups. Also consider that even within a raid zone we try to design easier bosses (usually near the front) and more challenging ones (usually at the end) which can help blur those lines and offer smoother transitions for each category.

Overall, we think you’ll have a better experience playing World of Warcraft if you play with friends, either existing or those you meet in game. WoW, while much more solo friendly than most older MMO games, is still intended as a multiplayer game. We provide features like Dungeon Finder for when playing with friends isn’t possible, and as we said above, we’d like to offer more features like that.

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