4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

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You do know that Method and Paragon have been raiding for like 20 hours in a row, with maybe a 30 min nap or two in there? ...Right?
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Don't tempt people to tell you just how "fun" and "engaging" the content can be when they judge it.

Because I can guarantee 80% of the casuals perusing the forums will be up in arms going "It's too hard".

Also, what do you do for those "Best" and "Focused" raiders who breezed through the content till now. I imagine this contnet will appease them till about the 2-3rd Tarecgosa's Wrath, but after that, what's to stop them from unsubbing till your next content patch.
Instead of doing normals first, just jump to heroics.


Because that's possible, right?


If you're killing Rag in less than a month, you're jumping to heroics pretty damn quickly. Why is it ok to wipe on the same bosses again and again on normal, but once you get to heroic it's suddenly unacceptable to face the same boss again? By all accounts you're getting these bosses down fast, I fail to see how facing a boss a few times on normal and then wiping on heroic is much worse than wiping on normal.
I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Epic

nicely done Sr.
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.[/i])


But what are we, the casual chainsaw jugglers, supposed to do? How am I going to progress MY chainsaw juggling when you guys only cater to the 1% hardcore chainsaw jugglers?
I've really enjoyed my first forays into the Firelands so far. I think it is enjoyable and challenging, though clearly doable.

I don't think I'd really enjoy being in the kind of guild that is already 5/7 HM, for a number of reasons. That's not a knock on them - just wouldn't be for me.

Those people are insane.

They knew all the fights...

If blizzard wants stuff to not be cleared whitin a few days, they shouldn't have a PTR...

But we like the PTR...


PTR is not only Blizzard wanting to give a favor to players...

Blizzard actually NEEDS the PTR and the PTR testing... As great as they are internally, they just cant test everything. They kept Sinestra a secret... What happened? She was STILL killed in a few days, and even worse, Blizzard was hotfixing the content during Paragon attempts...
You get your strategy out and SUDDENLY, this mob has an aoe damage. Suddenly there's fire that appears. Oh Look! The adds that the offtank is supposed to keep on him are now untauntable....

-Fun-
Because that's possible, right?
So you've implied that you were disappointed that you could jump through normals so quick. I assume that if that was disappointing, then when the next round of raids are released, turn the difficulty to heroic and chisel away at it. Skip normal mode entirely.

It will take much longer and will probably be more satisfying.

If you don't like that idea, then please don't complain about normals being too easy. You have the power to make it harder-- do it, or shut up.


I am disappointed that the bosses are easy enough that we can blow through four of with only a combined 7.5 hours in the instance. Yes, we overgear it a little (we were 6/13 through heroic T11 content), but it was literally to the point where we first smacked Baleroc in the face at 11:30 P.M. and he died at 11:57 P.M. on the same night. I've been in Random Dungeon Finder queues that have taken longer to kill a boss that everyone was familiar with.

Bosses are intrinsically less enjoyable to engage on "heroic mode" after you have already watched them die multiple times on Normal mode. My point is that Blizzard appears to be compensating for missing half a tier of raid bosses (7 is the least amount we've received since ToC, which is pretty much universally despised by the raiding community) by relying on heroic modes to be the other half of the tier's progression.

I guess hoping for another Ulduar is simply a pipe dream.

And yes, I've personally killed three of the new Firelands bosses on the first week. So far I've sat for the other boss that my guild has killed (both last week and this) because his drops aren't as important to me as they are to others. So this is not me complaining about how fast the TOP guild are clearing content. This is me pointing out that a casual raiding guild (defined by the amount of time we actually spend raiding) is clearing this content way too fast.
One of my biggest complaints about Firelands actually is the art. I know it's "fire"lands and everything, but does everything really have to be the same colors and fire related? Granted I've only seen up to Baleroc now so I don't know if it gets any better visual wise?

07/07/2011 01:28 PMPosted by Zamix
What the top guilds do in a day, isn't what you will be doing that same day but maybe over that whole week or month...


Paragon and others cleared t11 normals in week one of Cataclysm. Most guilds hadn't finished it by April, and even most who had felt they were overtuned. This blows your argument away completely doesn't it? They had sinestra down in a month. How many guilds downed Sinestra before 4.2? Just stop paying attention to those guilds.

Everyone, seriously, stop complaining about short/easy content until you're 7/7 Heroic. If you aren't, you're not done. Period.
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.

Your argument would hold more weight if it were only the top tier guilds clearing so fast. Killing normal mode Rag on Monday night would give you world 1200th rank. 1200 guilds are already working on heroics this, the 2nd week. Heroics at least seem to be progressing a bit slower, but I fully expect a few hundred guilds to be at least 4/7 by Monday night.

If it were just the top 10 or even 50 guilds progressing so fast, I don't think anyone would be worried. But that doesn't seem to be what's happening here. Maybe this week we'll see those second tier guilds hit a wall even if the top tier clear it all quickly, but so far that just doesn't seem to be the case.

Edit: For comparison, normal mode Nef took over a month for the world 1000th guild to kill, and normal mode Cho'gall and Al'akir took over 3 weeks. Even considering things like leveling time, adjusting to new expansion mechanics, starting from a lower relative gear level, etc. for the first tier, that's still a huge difference between 1200 world Rag kills in the first week.
lol the GM: It's only easy because they don't suck xD
I guess learning the encounters on the PTR means content is easy and that we should just be floored when the top .5% of the WoW community burns through it in a few days/weeks.

I'm not impressed. Why don't we all completely ignore the PTR for the next raid instance and see how quick things get done. I bet not in a week.
07/07/2011 01:16 PMPosted by Ciirestrazsa
Another thing you'll have to remember is that now people have had almost 7 years with their toons. They know the toons in and out and know how to use certain skills to avoid/create a given situation.Back when BC was out people had only 1-3 years of time with their toons, and on top of that, I think WoW elvolved more during BC than during any other time. A lot of classes changed with Catas release, but a lot of them also didn't. And the only really big changes were to tanking druids, paladin class altogether, and healing.


You're talking as if every single player started when WoW was launched. Some of us have been playing since BC or Wrath, and some of us started during Cata.
07/07/2011 02:01 PMPosted by Cantstandzya


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.

Your argument would hold more weight if it were only the top tier guilds clearing so fast. Killing normal mode Rag on Monday night would give you world 1200th rank. 1200 guilds are already working on heroics this, the 2nd week. Heroics at least seem to be progressing a bit slower, but I fully expect a few hundred guilds to be at least 4/7 by Monday night.

If it were just the top 10 or even 50 guilds progressing so fast, I don't think anyone would be worried. But that doesn't seem to be what's happening here. Maybe this week we'll see those second tier guilds hit a wall even if the top tier clear it all quickly, but so far that just doesn't seem to be the case.


Disregard the speed at which normals were cleared. Those 1,200 guilds were all decked out in 372 gear, which means they already outgeared t12N on top of being very good players. Normal firelands bosses are designed, and rightfully so, for people in 359 gear.
07/07/2011 01:38 PMPosted by Jile
Needing 300 marks to progress is below epic; needed THREE DAYS to get to P2 is beyond even conceivable.
Hotfixed to only be one day to get to the Molten Front now. Wish they had done this a week sooner, though.

Also, @Daxxari. Your post made me laugh. Hats off to you! Also, a well done post, too. I don't get why people care what the best raiders in the world do. They are the best, and they spent a lot of time in the PTR testing the fights to learn the strategies. I' d be more concerned about how your own guild is progressing, or, more importantly, if you are having fun.


Because that's possible, right?


If you're killing Rag in less than a month, you're jumping to heroics pretty damn quickly. Why is it ok to wipe on the same bosses again and again on normal, but once you get to heroic it's suddenly unacceptable to face the same boss again? By all accounts you're getting these bosses down fast, I fail to see how facing a boss a few times on normal and then wiping on heroic is much worse than wiping on normal.


To the heroic-mode haters, for the love of God, this.

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