4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

General Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 19 Next
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


This should be the final word on this. (I had planned on writing much the same post, just using 1 of 100 meter freestyle/100 meter dash/world record marathon.) I suggest that anyone who complains about raid content being easy without having cleared some or all of the heroic content be instantly given a lengthy forum vacation.
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


I feel like we're soul mates.
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.

Well said, even though my guild has downed the first boss in fireland I just now have managed to down nef here recently. Sure it is alot easier with the nerf (ALOT easier), but as a guild that is currently working with a core 10 man and trying to work its way to 25 mans, being able to get more people in with less gear in order to get them gear and experience in toned down fights is the first step towards doing much harder encounters.
Raids are designed to be beatable if you play 100%. If you play perfectly you are going to win.


These top 0.00001% guilds are performing perfectly, they are downing content fast because of it. Not because the heroic version of firelands are easy.
Dax,

I lost my post, so I'll sum up.

Don't listen to th people crying "too easy." They're living in la-la land.


4.2 (with the exception of the PVP situation) has been amazing. Molten Front is great, especially the acheivements involved. The Firelands raid trash is actually fun to farm, that's why so many people are doing it. The changes to tier 11 give us a fun entry raid that anyone can participate in, and we no longer feel bad for bringing friends and family that aren't the best players.

You're doing a great job on the PVE side of the house, keep up the good work. Please, please don't listen to these QQers again. Catering to them, like you did at the begining of Cata, was unbearable.
07/07/2011 01:10 PMPosted by Fanahlia


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.
So you're saying people should stop being sheeple and start... playing the game themselves?!?!?! THIS IS MADNESS!
MADNESS????? ..... THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!! xD
The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


You have to admit that making the content last is also a goal of the designers. Why else have the daily quests unlock so slowly?

Also that last line is badly phrased because it makes it sound like the developers would rather ignore the forums rather than listen to player feedback. I know you meant that players should judge for themselves instead of constantly looking at what pro players are doing.

However, don't the developers encourage that kind of elitism as something that also drives people to want to take part in those encounters anyway? Of course people are going to look to them to inform their decision, many players regard those top guilds as the 'experts' of wow and thus the ones most qualified to make value judgements.
My question is to anyone, but mainly Blizzard in general. Anyhow this will now be a open discussion regarding anyone thoughts on how 4.2 has been holding up to high end guilds.

As of right now: 10:44am 7/7/2011 2 guilds in the World, Paragon and Method have cleared all the Regular content within 1 day, over 50% of the heroic encounters (5/7), and raiding has only been accessible for heroic encounters about 2days or so. And seeing as EU has a different downtime I'd say a day and half at most.



You're talking about guilds that are famous for doing what they've done with Firelands. They rush through content as quickly as possible so they can get actual WORLD first, rather than just realm-first.

They pride themselves on breezing through content as quickly as possible. They abuse mechanics whenever they can, and do heavy research into what group makeup is best for each fight. Not to mention they are sponsored (Read: paid) to do so.

If there were thousands of guilds already through the content, you'd have a point. There are two guilds.
not to mention they get 'PAID' to run through the firelands like hell was closing in on them... sponsors LOVE being the ones who can say ' HA TAKE THAT ____ Our guild kicked yours ^_^* it allows the sponsor to be like ' Paragon uses (our brand name) to clear (raid) before (competitor's brand name) and their silly (competitor's product)

which gets more $$ from players who want to be 'like paragon' ..... good marketing in clearing stuff like mad
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Your message is constructive. But, to be fair, you're omitting two important points.

1. We just came from T11. I understand that opinions were mixed on that level of challenge - our guild personally loved it, but not everyone did. Regardless, it was quite challenging by all accounts. It's natural for us to make relative comparisons. Relative to T11, there is no way anyone could argue with a straight face that T12 normal mode is even in the same league.

2. Wowprogress doesn't just track the professional chainsaw jugglers. Its tracking around 14,000 guilds right now. I understand there are guilds that are too casual to bother with things like this - that's fine. My point is, we aren't talking about a few headline guilds as you suggest in your post. We're talking about 100's of 1000's of raiders.
I'm shocked that it is taking so long. Really.

2. Wowprogress doesn't just track the professional chainsaw jugglers. Its tracking around 14,000 guilds right now. I understand there are guilds that are too casual to bother with things like this - that's fine. My point is, we aren't talking about a few headline guilds as you suggest in your post. We're talking about 100's of 1000's of raiders.


That's about a seventh of the guilds that beat anything in tier 11. I'm pretty sure this is intended.

If there were 50000 guilds CLEARING all of Firelands on normal mode, then there would be something to QQ about. As it is, you're talking about (at most) 150000 players out of several million.

The normal content is made for everyone, not just the 3-5% that burn through it.
www.wowprogress.com

H: Beth'tilac: 39 (0.26%)
H: Lord Rhyolith: 152 (1.03%)
H: Alysrazor: 22 (0.15%)
H: Shannox: 857 (5.79%)
H: Baleroc: 5 (0.03%)
H: Majordomo: 2 (0.01%)
H: Ragnaros: 0 (0.00%)

Do you see that? Less than 1% of most raiding guilds IN THE WORLD have downed any boss on heroic besides 2. Less than 6% of the easiest heroic boss has been downed by ANY GUILD IN THE WORLD.

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.


Epic was when I dinged 60 after 15 days /played
Epic was when I completed my 8pc dungeon set after my 20th+ run in UBRS finally getting my chest piece
Epic was when my guild killed Ragnaros after all 40 people started in blues on Lucifron 8mo prior
Epic was when I saw the gong rang in front of the AQ gates
Epic was calling in air support, Ivus, ground support, goblin shredders, etc in the DAYS long AV!

I've been chasing that drug called Epic ever since.

so more what they call themselves "hardcore" player want blizz to just look after their needs and desires, that makes no sense whatsoever they are better of marketing to the more casual base seeing as thats where the moneys at.
I think what I read from the OP was: your game is by far too easy, denying that would be, well, a lie. The point is you can't say "the most skilled players in the word" in World of Warcraft. I don't find your game hard by 'any' means.

Some of the most skilled players in the world most certainly do not play World of Warcraft.....


He didn't say the most skilled gamers in the world, he said the most skilled *players*. I think it's pretty clear he meant players of the game we are currently talking about, not players of any game ever. That's not even how the word is used.
I do not yet know how long this content will last and so far it feels like a decent pace for my guild; but I wanted to respond to the flawed logic in the blue post. Or at least point out the OPs issue a bit more clearly.

Comparing what the 'TOP' guilds can do is not a good measure of how the bulk of even 'hard' core raiders will do; but.. still I do not believe that when Paragon got to ICC for the first time that they cleared it all in one night. What it means now though that guilds (and lots of them did it) cleared FL in just one night is that the gear you walk in with to kill trash is good enough to kill everything in there. There does not seem to be any tiered approach to the bosses, if you can kill a turtle your gear is good enough to kill everything and every boss. That should set off some flags with someone someplace.

No matter how you slice it this content was burned through faster then any other content put out so far and not just by 1 or 2 guilds but by many. Like I said it is a bit of a concern that gear didn't seem to play any issue. The tanks didn't need to get uber new gear to handle the last couple of bosses or that one boss that hits really hard or anything like that. It seems that all of the fights require about the same gear level or at least close enough that it doesn't matter.

As I said, our goal as a guild (we only raid 25 man) is to finish all normal content before next content and even with our limited raid nights (we only raided 2 nights the first week). We got 1 boss down and will most likely have another down this week as well. Even if the pace slows we will be finished in 2 months. That sort of feels 'ehhh' for a release that was touted so loudly by Blizzard as Epic. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed it so far and think the encounters have a decent mix of mechanics. I suspect that we will need to change our goal of 'all normal content' to include heroic but often for guilds that are not that hardcore that is a big leap. I do not look forward to having cleared everything on normal in 2 months and then 5 months of trying to keep busy with hard modes. Just seems like the tuning was a tad off, that's all I'm saying and that's what the original OP said. I would have had more respect for the Blue if he had said "time will tell" or "We always strive to get the tuning right but we still make mistakes from time to time" instead of diverting things with the "You can't count anything the really good guilds do". Like I pointed out, it's record clearing even for THOSE guilds and instead of just 1 or 2..it was way more guilds doing it, so either a LOT of guilds are now what you consider 'pro' or the top was a little easy to achieve this time. That's all I'm saying.
I apologize for this but

Nizzlez and Moohots are the same person. I just thought you all want to know? Proof? Ignore one and you'll find both are the same.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum