Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Now I bet people will QQ about the amount of valor from Tier 11 raids being too low...
It's disappointing that people can still VP cap from spamming heroics. I don't know where people get the mentality that troll heroics are at all hard or worthy to be compared to Firelands. They are either a crazy faceroll or a group that you know is going to fail from the 2nd pull in ZA or the 1st boss in ZG.

I'm not saying that people who cant get into FL for some reason or another should be barred from slowly gearing up from badge gear, but to get the same amount of VP as people raiding the cutting-edge content? Absurd. Not to mention, many people are often pressured into ZA/ZG just for the sake of capping VP just so that they dont lose out on potential VP.

Allowing people to get VP in T11 raids is a welcome change, but the amount of VP available from heroic dungeons is just so, so absurd.
It's disappointing that people can still VP cap from spamming heroics. I don't know where people get the mentality that troll heroics are at all hard or worthy to be compared to Firelands. They are either a crazy faceroll or a group that you know is going to fail from the 2nd pull in ZA or the 1st boss in ZG.

I'm not saying that people who cant get into FL for some reason or another should be barred from slowly gearing up from badge gear, but to get the same amount of VP as people raiding the cutting-edge content? Absurd. Not to mention, many people are often pressured into ZA/ZG just for the sake of capping VP just so that they dont lose out on potential VP.

Allowing people to get VP in T11 raids is a welcome change, but the amount of VP available from heroic dungeons is just so, so absurd.



I can't agree with you more here....If they nerfed the amount of VP you can get form 5 mans and made it to where all VP gained outside of Firelands was capped at 1/3 the cap or even 1/2 the cap, I would be happy with that compromise but I HATE that to get the best returns on VP, I have to go hit up ZA/ZG 7 times. If I didn't get capped pre-4.2, it wasn't a big deal to me but now I feel like I have to cap both my raiding toons every week through ZA/ZG because that is the BEST way to do it
I'm sobbing from relief at being able to have a choice on how I can cap out valor and am grateful that people still working on learning in T11 raiding have a chance to earn a little something towards current gear instead of feeling like they are taking time away from their heroic marathon in order to cap valor.

You have my grateful thanks for this change.
[quote="28424425801"]I suppose it makes sense, I havent ran the nerfed heroics so I can't make fair judgement[/quote

From my understanding, normal t11 raids got nerfed but the heroics remain exactly the same difficulty as they were pre-4.2
07/18/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Moringa
Now I bet people will QQ about the amount of valor from Tier 11 raids being too low...

Its already started in another thread in General Discussion.
[quote="28424425801"]I suppose it makes sense, I havent ran the nerfed heroics so I can't make fair judgement[/quote

From my understanding, normal t11 raids got nerfed but the heroics remain exactly the same difficulty as they were pre-4.2


They are, they just seem easier because people know the fights and have better gear than they did 3 months ago when they were introduced.

The only content that has actually recieved a solid nerf all of Cata is the tier 11 normals anyway. People whining about heroics being nerfed aren't actually looking at the adjustments that were made, they're simply jumping on the bandwagon that hates anything being a hair more forgiving for wierd group make-ups.

Which is common in the RDF.
So what about the last two weeks worth of JP you gonna switch it out tough guy... waste my time will ya.
Alas I must go to sleep but I will check up on this in the morning...please blizzard, if you are going to allow VP form Old Raid Content, nerf the amount of VP reward in 5mans.
07/18/2011 08:39 PMPosted by Vortmoth
This is a nice change. I'm glad to see this done. Even though it's not "current" content, it's not like those of us not in heroic gear can just faceroll through them.
Uh, yes you can. Pugs are facerolling through al'akir.
07/18/2011 11:15 PMPosted by Attilian
Alas I must go to sleep but I will check up on this in the morning...please blizzard, if you are going to allow VP form Old Raid Content, nerf the amount of VP reward in 5mans.


Making any changes to the VP rewards in the 5 mans removes choice and options for gearing if a player: a) misses a raid night for some reason, b) doesn't clear a raid, c) is a non-raider and desires gearing progression, or d) is the odd man (or woman) out and the raid is full.

Adding a small VP reward back to the tier 11 makes the current system as close to what I could call perfect as we'll ever see. It's fair for everyone. The VP gear accounts for 7 pieces, some badly itemized by comparison to what's available in the current raid. It increases the valid recruiting pool, prevents guilds from having to backflag content, and offers progression to everyone in the game for PVE.

Choice and options are good, we have a pretty darn good system with this change.

Making any changes to the VP rewards in the 5 mans removes choice and options for gearing if a player: a) misses a raid night for some reason, b) doesn't clear a raid, c) is a non-raider and desires gearing progression, or d) is the odd man (or woman) out and the raid is full.


I disagree. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but to me "choice and options for gearing" does not mean the same thing as 'capping VP each week akin to Firelands raiders'. People who do zazg heroics get the same type of 'badges' as Firelands raiders, which means they have the same "choice and options for gearing". However, people raiding Firelands should be able to attain these rewards faster, which is not the case here.

It's fair for everyone.


Some more elitist people might disagree with you here, but I think the opposing point of view has been expressed more thoroughly in other areas and will not reiterate it.

Thanks, Blizzard for re-instating, Valor Points, In the T11 raids. This will give players a larger variety of ways to earn Valor Points, Rather than run heroics or Firelands for Valor Points each week. =)

Additionally, This should encourage players to continue to enter these raids to experience the content if they are gearing up for the Firelands raid.

Making any changes to the VP rewards in the 5 mans removes choice and options for gearing if a player: a) misses a raid night for some reason, b) doesn't clear a raid, c) is a non-raider and desires gearing progression, or d) is the odd man (or woman) out and the raid is full.


I disagree. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but to me "choice and options for gearing" does not mean the same thing as 'capping VP each week akin to Firelands raiders'. People who do zazg heroics get the same type of 'badges' as Firelands raiders, which means they have the same "choice and options for gearing". However, people raiding Firelands should be able to attain these rewards faster, which is not the case here.

It's fair for everyone.


Some more elitist people might disagree with you here, but I think the opposing point of view has been expressed more thoroughly in other areas and will not reiterate it.


The opposing view only thinks about the pure non-raiders getting current raid level gear.

You have to think about it in another way.


You're 25 man raider #26 and miss 5/7 Firelands kills. Same can be said for 10 man.
The other situation is the person that misses a night of raiding due to RL issues.
The third is the building guild that needs a small edge before going in and is still buildinig their raiding team. (This is where I fall under.)

The current system, in it's current format, allows for the above to not be punished for things that are often outside of their control. It lets them supplement those points in several places.

You can't think of VP as a penultimate reward. It's designed to be part of the journey, which can take you many places, not just one. (Well in this discussion case raiding...)

The only thing that I think I might (and I stress might) be open to is the eventual reduction of ZG/ZA when, and only when, more challenging and tuned appropriate dungeons are released.

Which we can argue til the cows come home, should have been in 4.2, but they weren't. So we just have to wait another 2-3 months for the next set. Until then we can all have a hearty laugh at how fast Vinnie dies in 3/5 tier 12.
Great.....lets scrub it up more and cater to the whining bads. It was bad enough that pre-raid content was awarding as much valor as a current tier 12 boss kill, now we have tier 11 awarding valor up to approximately 540 points. Valor points should be for Tier 12 ONLY and all other points should be Justice. BTW the "gear advancement" argument is moot. You do not need valor points for tier 11 as it is tuned at ilvl 346.
07/19/2011 12:00 AMPosted by Sanguiniux
Great.....lets scrub it up more and cater to the whining bads. It was bad enough that pre-raid content was awarding as much valor as a current tier 12 boss kill, now we have tier 11 awarding valor up to approximately 540 points. Valor points should be for Tier 12 ONLY and all other points should be Justice. BTW the "gear advancement" argument is moot. You do not need valor points for tier 11 as it is tuned at ilvl 346.


Then you don't need it for Firelands either, because it's tuned for 359. JP should be fine for you too.

Then we get into the argument of trivializing your hard work, and then we try to explain to you that it's just a game and that preveting people from having fun because you want to be a snowflake and look different in SW/Org...

This debate goes in the same direction every time when you bring up what gear is needed for what. Lets be honest, the only reason we like getting better gear is because it's fun and it makes you more powerful. Which is the entire point of WoW endgame progression. Limiting fun at the endgame to the cutting edge raiding community only is what was the biggest complaint in Classic and the begining of BC. Some form of the current system has been in place ever since. (Classic was more of a PVP thing, but PVE did play a part... Different discussion.)

This is the best version of the system since it was introduced at the end of BC.
ultimately a good thing, since it feels like the "best" way to cap valors outside of firelands is to just run troll randoms to cap, and running the same instances repeatedly is pretty dull. more variety will make things more enjoyable for lots of people
This pleases me. /strokes beard
....Thanking about it, I suppose the point of this wasn't to make Firelands easymode for /trade. it was to prevent T11 from becoming obsolete.

It won't work in the long run, as I doubt my guilds RaidGroup 2's attendance problems won't suddenly dissappear because of FL level entitlement badges. it would have been better off if T 11 wasn't nerfed and they just brought back multi-tier progression. JP for 359s is fine, just make people actually WORK for those Shoulders and Helms. But I forget, Kotick thinks the entitled fair weather greener-grass dollar matters more than those of the actual casual player that desires challenge.

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