Explanation about ferals.

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07/22/2011 04:32 PMPosted by Reak
i am. i use it to feed my anger.

Laughed IRL.

Well done.

can support separate co-efficients for PvP and PvE.

They can.

I may be wrong, but resilience causes separate co-efficients, or at least acts like it. A player is labelled differently than an NPC, which is why CC and CS works differently on them. Just add something that'd be, like, a checker to see if it's a player or not. If player=yes, then it reduces the damage by X amount. If not, then it will do 100% normal damage.

I see your point. Consider this, though. Let us say that X ability is doing too much damage. I have over 4k resilience, and it still hits me for 30k. Now, in order for it to be balanced, they have one number to adjust. Not two. They will have to nerf BOTH PvP and PvE damage. Because their is no separate co-efficient. See what I mean?
my bleeds CRIT the level 85 target dummy with tigers fury 15% dmg for 12407.

19-23k shreds will only happen when lolunheededwarning is up.you dont specify the frequency of this dmg so it could be misinterpreted by some and they would think ZOMG 23K SHREDS ALL THE TIME.no its only when lolunheededwarning procs.

07/22/2011 03:14 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thanks for taking time to break your feedback down, Hotted. We're keeping a close eye on Feral in PvP and understand the concern. Things currently on our radar include the Berserk duration, the Unheeded Warning trinket, and the Predatory Swiftness talent.

I didn't read every post so I apologize if this has been covered...

From a pve perspective the duration of Berserk is pretty important especially considering you designed our 4p bonus around lengthening the duration of Berserk. The value of the 4p will also go down quite a bit as we won't be able to get as many finishers in with a shorter Berserk. It's a double nerf for pve ferals.

I will agree with just about anyone who suggests nerfing Unheeded Warning. It's a silly trinket and is way to good in both pvp and pve. I don't like the fact it's pretty comparable to 391 trinkets. It definitely needs to be nerfed.

I don't care much about Predatory Swiftness for pve... so nerf away =P

Edit: And you posted while I was typing my response... such a cutie pie!
Plz nerf me yet again......i hear mages need a buff
07/22/2011 03:17 PMPosted by Kneeco
Make the talent have an ICD of 10-15 seconds

Would have to be 15. The buff already lasts 8 seconds, and you can hold off until the last second if no one on the other team can dispel it from you.

For me, CP generation (assuming I use a finisher every time it's possibly up) is ~10 seconds in PvP gear. Faster in PvE gear due to more crit/haste.

Unheeded has no effect on FB damage. It's a fixed amount. And the most I could possibly get to crit on a target dummy was 53k, with TF up and having ~70 energy (50 energy used to make the most of the bite).

To everyone complaining about "30-40k FB crits", think about this: To even GET those, the feral has to have used TF and had over 50-60 energy. That is ALL of his burst for the next 10 seconds at the very least. I don't even bite often in PvE, where I have more energy generation, because I can drop one of my debuffs in that time and that's just not cool.

I figured damage would be kind of absurd, especially once higher iLvL weapons came out. I'm just heavily doubtful people are constantly being crit for 25-30k by every shred. Unless you were sitting in a maim when unheeded procced and he TF berserked into you. By all means, you will 90% of the time die in that.

I hope we become less bursty. I hate it, personally. Would rather be more bleed focused. Would rather not have to rely on precise usage of a trinket to maximize my DPS. It just seems like we're a hard class to balance for some reason. PvP side, people hate that we can shift out of everything so they nerf that, buff damage to compensate. PvE side, we didn't scale so they changed how those work so more damage at high gear levels.

Mister Zarhym, if I may take a moment to ask (and pray I get a response),

The berserk duration, currently, IS kind of absurd. I'm fine with a lowering of it. However, I'd, personally, love to see it at least BREAK fear again. Not immune, but break. Currently, it's hell trying to do anything when there's a fear around. It makes me sad. Sure, I can get dispelled out of it, but that's beside the point.

Oh, and I guess if you nerf the duration of Berserk, I'd be completely fine with my 4pc. As it stands, I'm debating if it's even useful for me. I pretty much have to berserk right after I TF so that TF is back up by the time berserk ends and I don't lose any possible uses of it. With the 4pc, I could very well extend it to 31 seconds, and well beyond, depending on the fight.
i'd drop 'zerk duration but also the CD to 2 mins instead of 3. agree 25s is *way* too long in pvp.

an ICD of 10s would have a small effect on instant clones, not a major one, but i think it would quell some of the QQ, so it's a good idea.

completely agree about UHW, gut that trinket so it's worthless, then we can talk about feral damage meaningfully. giving an effective s11+ weapon to a feral for 10s every minute is all kinds of stupid.

I actually like those ideas.

The first one would not only take but give to Ferals; the second one would help slightly, and hell I wouldn't complain even if they made it 15s, and the last one.. that trinket's really annoying. It's causing more problems than it's worth and getting Ferals potentially nerfed. >>
I prefer they leave Unheeded Warning alone. That is all.
Let's please not devolve too much into a discussion of "get your PvE/PvP balance out of my PvP/PvE game!" It's just not beneficial to anyone.

That said, we're happy with Feral performance in PvE overall. It we were to nerf Predatory Swiftness, it'd have a minor impact on PvE. Unheeded Warning is both a PvE and PvP problem. The particular mechanics of the trinket keep it disproportionately powerful for Feral druids. Nerfing Berserk would have PvE ramifications, but we'll take steps overall to make sure your dps doesn’t drop in PvE. We do everything we can to ensure we're considering all aspects of gameplay when approaching class balance.

So basically what you're saying is that we can expect a definite nerf to Predatory Swiftness? Really? Do you guys remember how crappy we were before that? That's why I quit Wrath, right before they added insta-cast nature spells. Because we straight up sucked and if you nerf it we will suck again.

It's ridiculous, I've been playing a FERAL since vanilla. I don't know what late-WotLK was like, but I've spent most of my career as a Feral sucking in PvP. I still have to bust my butt just to get a spot in RBGs over Smokebo... I mean rogues. Yeah. Anyway check my credentials bro and get at me. This is bull and you know it. Are we REALLY doing better than Warriors/DKs/Frost Mages/Resto Shams in PvP now? Honestly?

You touch our Predatory Swiftness and we'll all reroll Resto Shams, Frost Knights and Frost Mages. We warned you.
Give me a break. So tired of hearing about people giving inflated numbers about what ferals hit for. Their damage isn't the problem. In fact, their damage is still lower than warriors, mages, locks, and rogues. I honestly don't believe you when you say you got hit with 34k FB. I've only hit that once on a mage with unheeded and tigers fury proc'd.

The fact is, feral druid pve damage isn't the best, and even with the damage buffs it still isn't the best, so guess what? The damage is going to stay.

The damage numbers that i put there are definitely not inflated. I'll screen shot my combat log after another arena session today, but 30-34k bites happen often.

I arena all the time on my druid and i can honestly say I've never hit those kind of numbers your talking about... I dont have unheeded warning either, the problem isnt druid dmg its that OP trinket....

Unfortunatly for you, resto druids are the problem, they're the ONLY healing class i can easily kill on my feral.... especially when they dont, Hibernate. root and cyclone me...But still they are easy to kill...

If its me VS a resto shaman, I just leave because its a draw.. holy pally same thing they never run out of mana..

Your real problem is.. You just can't get away from another druid..
dagglet, i like your post. <3

07/22/2011 04:46 PMPosted by Reak
They were in a good before they were buffed.

so if we were fine in 4.1, can we go back to that?

weaker than rogues, dks, and rets. weaker than enhance would be if msw worked on absorbs.

Hunters would like a word with you OBVIOUS ALT of a Druid.

this is my fault. i wasn't defending the notion that we have the weakest heals of all dps, i was simply saying we are weak in the heals department compared to other melee, which is who we should be compared to. sorry for not being clear.

also, yes, my main is a feral. problem?

07/22/2011 04:49 PMPosted by Rialto
I prefer they leave Unheeded Warning alone. That is all.

i'd prefer not having feral gutted because of a trinket.

Everyone agreeing that Feral Druids need fixing.

Apart from Feral Druids, of course. To them its absurd, unfair and - at the moment - completely balanced.

Happens every time.
I remember when rets in 3.0 thought they were balanced, and mostly everyone else was bad.
TBH I find it rather annoying when players say to ignore PvP and balance for PvE.

Balance for PvE? As long as you can contribute to doing the proper amount of DPS to kill the boss, you're balanced. You do not need to be pulling top and that's why Recount really messed with PvE, that mentality, I mean Recount is good to see if a DPS is doing significantly less DPS than they should but the whole topping the charts mentality is for failures.

Also.. If you really want balance in both PvE and PvP..

Wouldn't it be better to balance Characters for PvP and then balance Bosses around what those Characters are able to put out? o_O;; I know it'd be a lot of work but surely it's part of a solution if they did take that direction, but they won't.

Heres a FB crit, tho this was one of 3 i received during the fight all 3 for 23-29k with 4200 resil, and i think my oblits crit him maybe 15k

fb requires so much setup and has such a high opportunity cost it's not worth it the vast majority of the time. you can oblit far more often than a feral can bite.

07/22/2011 04:57 PMPosted by Yotei
Wouldn't it be better to balance Characters for PvP and then balance Bosses around what those Characters are able to put out? o_O;;

quiet you, logic isn't allowed here.

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