Ret paladin DPS problem.

Paladin
How is my DPS still doing bad? I finished gemming, glyphing, and enchanting my gear and still pretty low for my Avg. Ilvl being 357 doing 11k dps average is pretty bad In my opinion. Most people I see do 15k and above :(.
I try to keep up Inquisition all times use Templar verdict when 3 holy power and use crusader strike everytime up until 3 holy power for Templar hit. Sounds OK. See no problem.

Check Out My Armory!
How is my DPS still doing bad? I finished gemming, glyphing, and enchanting my gear and still pretty low for my Avg. Ilvl being 357 doing 11k dps average is pretty bad In my opinion. Most people I see do 15k and above :(.
I try to keep up Inquisition all times use Templar verdict when 3 holy power and use crusader strike everytime up until 3 holy power for Templar hit. Sounds OK. See no problem.

Check Out My Armory!


Missing 8 enchants (no ebonsteel belt buckle as well) plus you're gemmed wrong. Have you looked much into Retribution paladins or just done your own thing? Hit, hit, hit, is wrong try to reforge it not gem it. Haven't checked your glyphs/spec/stats yet either
-Graycen
You're gemmed mostly wrong, heres a guide on gemming for all classes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JaiU-khm8&feature=channel_video_title
No enchants.

Gem straight strength unless the bonus is +20 strength or better, then use a +20 str/+20 hit or +20 str/+20 mastery gem. Do not gem for anything else.

Reforge to get hit and exp cap. You are a bit over the hit cap and if you're only doing 5 mans you can afford to be under it.

Reforge stat priority after hit and exp: Mastery > Crit > Haste.


BIG EDIT: Dump the Crusader Strike glyph and get the Seal of Truth glyph.
what the above posters said. You have below average gear coupled with the fact that you have no enchants on anything you own.
please read up on ret pallys on elitist jerks = WIN
You are missing:
Use Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond Meta gem instead.
+50 strength +25 critical strike shoulder enchant from therazane rep
+50 crit rating cloak enchant
+20 all stats to chest(+15 if you want to be cheap)
Fill that blue chest socket with Etched Demonseye(+20 strength/+20 hit) for more strength
+50 strength to bracers
+50 strength to gloves
Fill that blue glove socket with bold inferno ruby(+40 strength)
Get an ebonsteel belt buckle for that belt, and socket both sockets with bold inferno ruby(+40 strength)
Replace the +40 crit gem in your legs with +40 strength and ignore the socket bonus.
Buy dragonscale leg armor for your leg enchant slot.
Replace the gem in your boots with +40 strength and ignore the socket bonus.
enchant the boots with +50 mastery.
Enchant your weapon with landslide(there's seriously no reason not to now, maelstrom crystals are cheaper n dirt.)

Finally, once all that's done, go to wowreforge dot com or askmrrobot dot com and optimize away.
Ret is only bad if you don't know how to play the spec properly.
08/03/2011 01:48 PMPosted by Soupkitchen
Ret is only bad if you don't know how to play the spec properly.


Ret is bad period. DPS per gear item level is horrible in comparison to other primary dps specs. In fact, rets rank below some suboptimal dps specs for other classes (Demo Warlock, assassination rogues, fire mages, feral druids). If, in your guild, ret pallies are fine, then the rest of your dps is not.

Check it out before you talky:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/
08/04/2011 06:48 AMPosted by Parcival
Ret is only bad if you don't know how to play the spec properly.


Ret is bad period. DPS per gear item level is horrible in comparison to other primary dps specs. In fact, rets rank below some suboptimal dps specs for other classes (Demo Warlock, assassination rogues, fire mages, feral druids). If, in your guild, ret pallies are fine, then the rest of your dps is not.

Check it out before you talky:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/


Sounds a case of learn to play for you there man
And apply some slight statistical analysis before you talky-backy.

I'm no math major, haven't taken a stat class since high school. But a few things I notice right away:

The top three DPS specs, according to this, have their minimum spec scores between 40 and 60. This ridiculously skews the top DPS specs' scores based on the number of good players playing those specs rather than the actual output of the specs. With more shadow priests, balance druids, and affliction warlocks, their top 600 is better than other specs top 600. This makes ret look much worse by comparison.

The table also doesn't take burst into account. Ret's burst is among the highest in the game, and on many bosses having high burst is more important than sustained damage. I don't care what numbers you pull on the first two phases of the Ascendant Council fight as long as you can hit heavy in p3, and ret is great for that.
What everyone forgot to tell you was the following:

08/03/2011 01:44 PMPosted by Obliterate
Your dps is still doing bad because your ret. And ret is a walking pile of crap atm.


To the rest of you, who cares that 4 of his gems are wrong and he doesn't have all enchants...

My druid who has zero enchants, zero gems, and is in worse gear but does between 15k-18k DPS (single target) depending on the fight.

This hunter does a sustained 17k DPS (single target) as survival.

With his gear, the OP should be doing at least that much. But no. Because Ret DPS is broken.

08/04/2011 06:55 AMPosted by Xonkyo
Sounds a case of learn to play for you there man


Um no. You're in denial. Go to http://www.worldoflogs.com/ and tell me how many retribution paladins are even within the top 20.

Most of us know how to play. We also know Ret DPS is complete trash atm.

08/03/2011 01:48 PMPosted by Soupkitchen
Ret is only bad if you don't know how to play the spec properly.


Wrong.

And apply some slight statistical analysis before you talky-backy.

I'm no math major, haven't taken a stat class since high school. But a few things I notice right away:

The top three DPS specs, according to this, have their minimum spec scores between 40 and 60. This ridiculously skews the top DPS specs' scores based on the number of good players playing those specs rather than the actual output of the specs. With more shadow priests, balance druids, and affliction warlocks, their top 600 is better than other specs top 600. This makes ret look much worse by comparison.

The table also doesn't take burst into account. Ret's burst is among the highest in the game, and on many bosses having high burst is more important than sustained damage. I don't care what numbers you pull on the first two phases of the Ascendant Council fight as long as you can hit heavy in p3, and ret is great for that.


That's why you click on the "overall DPS" button and look at the median or mean DPS. And surprise surpise, the only specs that Ret is beating in DPS are specs proven to be inferior in raiding - unholy DKs, surv hunters, arms warriors, sub rogues, etc
I didn't realize that a hybrid class not placing in the top twenty was evidence that the spec was broken. I was in a pug 25-man BH yesterday and got first place DPS on Argaloth, second on Occular. Sure, half the raid was probably bad, and sure, they're demons. However, they're also very much tank-and-spank encounters, which are the worst setups for a ret. We're more beneficial on burst-favoring encounters. And the half of the raid that wasn't bad were pulling DPS in the mid 20ks, which is pretty damn solid.

I pulled 26-27k on those fights. Am I broken?

That's why you click on the "overall DPS" button and look at the median or mean DPS. And surprise surpise, the only specs that Ret is beating in DPS are specs proven to be inferior in raiding - unholy DKs, surv hunters, arms warriors, sub rogues, etc


Median and mean don't in any way adjust for the poor sample size, nor do they account for burst.
I didn't realize that a hybrid class not placing in the top twenty was evidence that the spec was broken. I was in a pug 25-man BH yesterday and got first place DPS on Argaloth, second on Occular. Sure, half the raid was probably bad, and sure, they're demons. However, they're also very much tank-and-spank encounters, which are the worst setups for a ret. We're more beneficial on burst-favoring encounters. And the half of the raid that wasn't bad were pulling DPS in the mid 20ks, which is pretty damn solid.

I pulled 26-27k on those fights. Am I broken?

That's why you click on the "overall DPS" button and look at the median or mean DPS. And surprise surpise, the only specs that Ret is beating in DPS are specs proven to be inferior in raiding - unholy DKs, surv hunters, arms warriors, sub rogues, etc


Median and mean don't in any way adjust for the poor sample size, nor do they account for burst.


Your anecdotal evidence is somehow supposed to negate statistical analysis of the class..?

And you can increase the sample size by selecting "All parses" as opposed to top 100.... When you do that, Ret drops even more for both 25 reg and 25 H. The reality is that classes in equal gear level will consistently outperform you. So yes, ret is broken. Until my guild has a boss on farm status, it would be detrimental to bring my ret paladin over my mage, druid, frost DK, or hunter.

As for hybrids, you will notice that both balance and ferals druids are in the top 10 and Spriests in the top 2.
Druids and priests aren't just in the top. They basically constitute the top. I didn't mean to imply we're suffering from a hybrid tax. What I meant was that not being the best of the best doesn't make us broken.

Maybe we don't scale well at the peak of gear this patch. I wouldn't know, I'm not there. I don't think you are, either. MOST people aren't.

We aren't discussing whether or not a ret paladin is the best spec to take to your first guild downing of H Ragnaros. This thread is about a newer player seeking to improve his DPS for 5-mans. The other is for Firelands Normal-mode. I see nothing to indicate that ret isn't fine in these scenarios.

And you still aren't addressing our burst capability.
Druids and priests aren't just in the top. They basically constitute the top. I didn't mean to imply we're suffering from a hybrid tax. What I meant was that not being the best of the best doesn't make us broken.

Maybe we don't scale well at the peak of gear this patch. I wouldn't know, I'm not there. I don't think you are, either. MOST people aren't.

We aren't discussing whether or not a ret paladin is the best spec to take to your first guild downing of H Ragnaros. This thread is about a newer player seeking to improve his DPS for 5-mans. The other is for Firelands Normal-mode. I see nothing to indicate that ret isn't fine in these scenarios.

And you still aren't addressing our burst capability.


Except the new player will NEVER do as well as someone else in equal gear. Yeah, with better gems, reforging, and enchants he should see a boost in his DPS. That's irrelevant though because he will always do worse - far worse than other DPS specs (provided they aren't retarded specs like sub rogues or frost mages).

Ideally, we should see ret paladins in the top more often. The mitigating difference being skill. That is not at all the case. You performing at your peak and beating out some scrub who is banging his head against the keyboard is not a good metric of whether ret is "up to par" with other classes.

As for burst, so what? I'm not addressing it because I don't really need to. So because paladins excel in 2-3 fights but suck at the other 25 boss fights, the class is then okay..? I don't find that to be acceptable. When i walk into a heroic or a raid, I want my skill to push me to the top. Playing as close to the theoretical maximum only to watch me get blown away on DPS by everyone else (again, assuming they aren't complete scrubs) sucks.


Um no. You're in denial. Go to http://www.worldoflogs.com/ and tell me how many retribution paladins are even within the top 20.



Let's see

guild named "goDZ of DESTRUCTION"
No firelands or raid experience whatsoever


then there's me

Legitimate raid experience for the last 3 expansions
Played ret since it was first made viable in tbc
First hand experience of you know, actually doing bosses and knowing what we excel at and what we don't

You will find that ret does just fine - middle of the pack on single target fights. We don't have stellar aoe and I don't pad meters like a fiend. But I'm gonna go with what I know and have done over the last months instead of some random hunter on the paladin forms trying to crusade people into joining his hopeless cause speaking out against blizzard

Next time you want to insult someone about being in denial, you should really check and see who exactly you quoted


Except the new player will NEVER do as well as someone else in equal gear. Yeah, with better gems, reforging, and enchants he should see a boost in his DPS. That's irrelevant though because he will always do worse - far worse than other DPS specs (provided they aren't retarded specs like sub rogues or frost mages).


Well, then I've never played with good players, then. I mean, I suppose that's possible, but I've been in multitudes of raid groups with varying lineups since early Wrath, when I started seriously playing ret, and except for a few troubling times (pre-4.06, for example), I've always been highly competitive. I think I more accurately represent the average player than WoL parses of heroic guilds, no?


Ideally, we should see ret paladins in the top more often. The mitigating difference being skill. That is not at all the case. You performing at your peak and beating out some scrub who is banging his head against the keyboard is not a good metric of whether ret is "up to par" with other classes.

Again, I find it really hard to believe that I've always grouped with scrubs. I'll allow that some, perhaps most DPS I've played with, have been bad. That's just the nature of this game. But I've pugged with the top guilds of my server and have always placed highly.

As for burst, so what? I'm not addressing it because I don't really need to. So because paladins excel in 2-3 fights but suck at the other 25 boss fights, the class is then okay..? I don't find that to be acceptable. When i walk into a heroic or a raid, I want my skill to push me to the top. Playing as close to the theoretical maximum only to watch me get blown away on DPS by everyone else (again, assuming they aren't complete scrubs) sucks.

Except that burst DPS on certain encounters is more important than sustained DPS. To use an extreme example, it wouldn't matter if you only sustained 10k DPS over the course of an encounter if you were bursting 40k during specific, important burn phases. I sustained roughly 18-19k DPS last time I killed Beth'tilac, which is decent but nothing to write home about. However, I could push ~35k bursts on two of the three upstairs-phases, and then a final ~45k burst during the heroism push to beat the enrage. I consider those numbers more important than the overall damage dealt on the fight.

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