Low lvls

Battlegrounds
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The gear gap is not the whole issue, although I would love to see some new PvP gear become available for each brackets max level. And not just a melee necklace or a casters cloak like we have now, but full pieces with set bonuses. I pay $15/mo to play this game, and I've put in the work to build a twink, get the gear and appropriate enchants. I don't catch the headshot like a lot of people here complain about, but I don't see why somebody who just started playing should be deprived of the same experience as those of us who have been playing for 5 years.

But having said that, there are some class balance issues that should be addressed. What's more, Blizzard has promised to do exactly that, and then ignored our requests as soon as they felt we were sufficiently placated.

"Nobody should be one-shotting at any battleground level, so yes that (and many other class abilities) will be addressed." - Kalgan

"there are a number of issues like that for when abilities are given for classes, mostly in relation to running dungeons early on, and then quite a few for PvP twinking and keeping those brackets balanced a bit better. They're legit issues and we hope to be able to spend some time going over ability pacing again." - Bashiok

"We care without boundaries. We care so much for people playing through the lower levels, we remade Azeroth anew in Cataclysm. And that wasn't all we did to improve the experience for lower level players." - Wryxian

"at low levels, no one cares" - Forum user, "We do, actually." - Kalgan

"We understand this may have some impact on [low level] PvP healing and do want to look over balance at those lower levels at some point in the future." - Lylirra

"We do care about and actively balance at lower levels. Our goal is to make the game as fun and balanced at possible at all levels" - Zarhym

"Now with patch 3.2, we're technically supporting twinking" - Zarhym


The purpose of this thread was not to QQ about getting killed too quickly by Hunters or Rogues in standard BGs. It was to point out to those who want to PvP in low-level brackets that their concerns have been seen by Blizzard and promptly ignored. It was to show people the commitment that Blizzard has promised but failed to deliver. If you have no desire to PvP in low-level brackets, then this post was never meant for you. But this game does have 85 levels to play through, so why not make ALL 85 levels enjoyable for the 10.5 million people playing, and not just focus on the end-game aspect.

I would also like to see more development for low level BGs. Apart from the gear I mentioned earlier, why not additional BGs as well? If you PvP pre-level 40, the only new BG you've gotten was one already in place, they just lowered the level requirement. If they can come out with a new raid every 6 months, why not a new BG?

WoW lost 500,000 accounts in less than 6 months, and I think that's a more than adequate message that Blizzard is dropping the ball here. People are leaving because of imbalance, gear gaps, and stale content. Yes, leveling was made easier, but is that what the game needed? Yes, we get new vanity pets and mounts, but is that what people were looking for? I think Blizz needs to spend less time catering only to the people who raid/Arena and spend countless hours trying to get 14,000 ach points, and a little more time trying to keep the entire game fresh. And the early game PvP is the most neglected aspect of them all.
08/08/2011 06:28 AMPosted by Allypredator
early game PvP is the most neglected aspect of them all.


I agree in part. Sure it's neglected and unbalanced. The problem lies in the fact that the problem doesn't last long. Even as little as I play I get through a bracket in 2-3 days. So the problems one particular bracket, while they may be severe, it doesn't last long. With the Exp awards you're going to eventually level out of that bracket even if you lose every game.

What the low-level class imbalance affects the most is exp off twinks. I'm sure they keep track of the percentage of exp-off characters and put aside the 'appropriate' amount of resources for that player base.

'appropriate' being used in a business context of cost/profit. Shareholders don't care one iota about the game itself, just what kind of numbers it generates.
08/08/2011 08:17 AMPosted by Kanilai
early game PvP is the most neglected aspect of them all.


I agree in part. Sure it's neglected and unbalanced. The problem lies in the fact that the problem doesn't last long. Even as little as I play I get through a bracket in 2-3 days. So the problems one particular bracket, while they may be severe, it doesn't last long. With the Exp awards you're going to eventually level out of that bracket even if you lose every game.

What the low-level class imbalance affects the most is exp off twinks. I'm sure they keep track of the percentage of exp-off characters and put aside the 'appropriate' amount of resources for that player base.

'appropriate' being used in a business context of cost/profit. Shareholders don't care one iota about the game itself, just what kind of numbers it generates.


What about XP off brackets?
08/08/2011 08:20 AMPosted by Allypredator
What about XP off brackets?


I could've sworn I mentioned exp off....

What the low-level class imbalance affects the most is exp off twinks. I'm sure they keep track of the percentage of exp-off characters and put aside the 'appropriate' amount of resources for that player base.

'appropriate' being used in a business context of cost/profit. Shareholders don't care one iota about the game itself, just what kind of numbers it generates.


Oh, there it is and my theory that they don't comprise a large enough player base to devote man-hours to correct it anytime soon if ever.

Yes, it's just a theory; I don't have access to the bean-counters and their inner management style. I just know I wouldn't waste time or funds on a small base of my customers when resources would be better suited to bring in more or accommodating a larger amount of existing customers. It is triage, business-style.
lol yep low level pvp is imbalanced mostly because of low lvls having heirlooms of godly gear. I remember being level 12 just entering a Bg and having 4 rogues waiting in the flag room laughing just waiting to kill whatever comes in. and guess what came in a lvl 15 or so hunter with like 2k hp >.>
what makes all of this funny is most of the people who complain about the bad pvp dont have over 100 kills i just started pvping a few days ago and have over 500. it is all about the skill of the player if you suck well im sorry your just bad..... nothing they can nerf to make you better because even if they do change the stuff your still gunna get !@*@d by people better than you..... im not saying im the best because i get my !@# handed to me sometimes and it makes me go wtf?? then i look thru my combat log and realize i got !@*@d because i didnt evasion.... trinket etc etc... you get the picture so quit whining it works as it always has.....l as intented


edit: does anyone else not remember... rogues/warlocks being the top killers prebc and bc..... i do..
08/08/2011 09:31 AMPosted by Twobuttons
lol yep low level pvp is imbalanced mostly because of low lvls having heirlooms of godly gear. I remember being level 12 just entering a Bg and having 4 rogues waiting in the flag room laughing just waiting to kill whatever comes in. and guess what came in a lvl 15 or so hunter with like 2k hp >.>


I think this is post number 432,785,932 on this topic.

Working as intended, carry on.


I would gladly trade my heirlooms back for all that time I spent running heroics, doing Argent Tourney dalies and Jousting.

Oh Gods, the JOUSTING. Will the nightmares ever stop?
this thread is 100% accurate. Especially when you have players who dont have BoA and people with BoA at like level 14 have 1500 HP...blizzard the dmg output of level 14s doesnt really cover up to 1500 health.Or a level 19 with 2300 HP, while you are attacking you will have someone come up to you with BoA and boom in 1 -3 skills you are dead. Its totally imbalanced and it really does ruin the game for people who dont have BoA and trying to have fun in PvP. WE NEED BALANCE :D
08/08/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Fargocalle
people with BoA at like level 14 have 1500 HP


Just posting to totally disprove that it's all BoAs.

That kind of health requires far more than just BoAs.
The HP thing is a matter of talents and scalability. hunters have a 1st tier talent that gives them a % of their base xp, so you see survival hunters with 800 hp at level 14 dealing a ton of damage. I just made an enh shaman and they have no such hp mod, leaving me at 550hp with full heirlooms (guild ones too). Now a ranged attacker with crazy burst, high hp, spammable slows and a way to get out of melee range (disengage) vs a melee with no gap closers, no slows, and 2 ranged instant spells that share a CD and crit for <200, who do you think would win? Kill command alone at that level was hitting me for 3/4 hp, and he wasnt even beastmaster!

Im not whining, i love playing enhance shaman, even if rogues and hunters steal all my kills, and 3 shot me, and I do understand how heirlooms and twinking gear affects all this, but again, this is coming from a full heirloom shaman. The difference is simply baffling. I guess I could roll elemental and have a pushback? Otherwise, heal? hell no! :P

My point is, that yes, there is an imbalance, but its to be expected. Rogues and hunters have always dominated lower brackets, even before cataclysm. Regular melee (rogues dont count since they can sneak up) will never be able to dominate like that. Just get used to it and be proud youre not a fotm twink?

I dont know what I just wrote, probably doesnt make any sense, but w/e
ITT: throwing stones at a wall
08/08/2011 11:09 AMPosted by Deepinit
this thread is 100% accurate. Especially when you have players who dont have BoA and people with BoA at like level 14 have 1500 HP...blizzard the dmg output of level 14s doesnt really cover up to 1500 health.Or a level 19 with 2300 HP, while you are attacking you will have someone come up to you with BoA and boom in 1 -3 skills you are dead. Its totally imbalanced and it really does ruin the game for people who dont have BoA and trying to have fun in PvP. WE NEED BALANCE :D


I actually think it is balanced. I guess if you don't like a certain class roll one?

To me, it is working as intended. Everything one player has, another can get.


Umm, no? A new player, fresh out of the gate, does not have access to:
A) BoA gear
- or -
B) Gold to buy/make/enchant Twink gear

Yet, said player ques in a BG at lvl 19.... with his quest greens or couple of dungeons blues, and what happens? He gets a great experience of seeing the spirit healer every other minute.

As for the, "if you don't like a certain class, role one." comment, said Player doesn't want to play a rogue, or a hunter, they want to play what they want to play. That player should not be punished in a game for playing in the class/role in the area they want to.

So how do we address this issue across 10-80 levels and brackets?

Well, for one, is gear... I'd venture to say that 75-80% of the issue is gear. Skill only matters when everyone is at an equal level, and the equaling factor is gear, if you disgaree, then go do competitive arenas/RBGs in your PvE gear.

My suggestion to award gear in BGs similar to how it is awarded in RDF would go a long way to provide accessable and useable gear, thus narrowing the margin of unfairness. True, twinks with BoAs would only get that much stronger, but that is the award for having levels at least one toon up to get said BoAs. However, it would at least give the newer players a fighting chance to have some decent gear and learn to play their class in PvP, not learn how to reapply buffs after every rez. The gear fix is an easy one to accomplish, as there is already "PvP" gear in game throughout the brackets, it just needs to be retooled for actual PvP, and placed in an accessable location (capital cities where all the other honor gear is located).

The second fix would be to scale all abilities into smaller brackets, not post-30/post-80 levels. What I mean by smaller brackets is to scale all damage and healing and buffs into the x1-x9 levels. In smaller increments so that they reach full potential at end game. They make BoAs scale in an even and fair manner 1-80... so they can surely scale abilities to flow evenly between brackets and make it reasonable at all levels. If this fix would put a hamper on doing PvE related tasks, such as dungeons , etc. Then scale encounters up and down (in numbers, not adding/removing encounters, taking mobs out, adding mobs, etc.) to compensate and reflect the damage/healing/buffing available at required or expected levels for that encounter.

What the second fix would also bring back, is a taste of the difficulty that Blizz originally had in mind for dungeons, content for players at various levels in the game. They had the good intentions of making content accessable to all skill levels, but by dumbing down the system, they also dumbed down the playerbase, hence all the homogenization thats happened. But, thats another debate entirely.

Anyone who comes to these threads, and offers nothing but, "its fine, L2P, Working as Intended, QQ more" are those who are reaping the awards of a broken system. A change in that system so they wouldnt have such an easy time of it, would hamper their insta-gratification and then they would be the ones in here QQing.
This is what Blizzard is doing

Newbies to the game: "Wow, that rogue tore me up. But he's got all the heirloom gear. I can't wait to be able to get heirloom gear, then I'm going to roll an alt and do what he just did to me."

Casual PvPers on alts with heirlooms: "Tearing players up in 3 hits is a lot of fun, it's just a shame I level so quickly, I don't get to spend enough time on this character. And I don't want to stop exp gains from battlegrounds, because the people in there are hardcore and will beat me every time. Oh well, when this character gets too high of a level to be fun, I'll roll a Shaman. Darn, I don't have the heirlooms for a Shaman, back to the grind on my main."

Experienced PvPers, likely with BG exp turned off: "Lawl I can't global kids on my main, this is fun"

In all three scenarios, they keep paying to play.

Working as intended.
08/08/2011 01:14 PMPosted by Peacefrog
Working as intended.


I didnt know you were a game designer for Blizzard.... since you're here can you fill us in on all the other issues players are reporting...since clearly you're the brains behind this operation.

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