GC's latest blog, Active Mitigation Playstyle

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So if I pick this up right...a really badass Blood DK and a badass disc priest will mitigate so well we can 2 man raids?!
Blizzard buffs Paladin tanks in TBC.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard makes AoE tanking easier in TBC.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard adds a class that can tank: deathknights.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard adds CTA to encourage LFD tanks.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard makes tanking easier (GC's post).
Solves tank shortage? ??

I'm seeing a pattern here. So do you think Blizzard realizes tanking shortage is a community problem.



agreed!

I used to have 3 tanks (pally,warrior, then DK in wrath)starting in BC off tanked and main tanked all through BC till end of wrath, and loved it. it made sence and I rarely had a problem with threat or dammage mitigation ect.

Cata hit and I quit tanking! It became a polar opposite to what it had been before.

I didn't understand it anymore, and didn't want to put the time into a system that even if I eventually understood it I wouldn't enjoy playing.

the model used for cata is a failure until that is ecknowledged nothing will change.

no i think blood dks do have it worse than bears we may only have 2 cooldowns but bears have it easy atm if you know your class and your spec is good bear tanking is alot easier than a blood dk we are soak tanks
08/16/2011 06:25 PMPosted by Daxxarri
On that note, we're interested in addressing some of the concerns that have been expressed about the spec (potentially as soon as the next major patch)


Hear that?! Come 4.3 we'll be viable again for tanking. YEAH!!
08/16/2011 07:04 PMPosted by Falangen
On that note, we're interested in addressing some of the concerns that have been expressed about the spec (potentially as soon as the next major patch)


Hear that?! Come 4.3 we'll be viable again for tanking. YEAH!!

I'll believe it when I see it.
yeah but your counting on blizz to fix an issue itll just end up breaking something else
You know what I got from that blue post? Threat model is boring so lets change it and add something even worse
08/16/2011 06:59 PMPosted by Charsi
Right now it's tough for DK tanks because they're the only ones on anything resembling an active mitigation model.


No, it's tough because they take more damage under the expectation of healing it back, and die when damage is too high. Fix that part. The active part is fine (provided everyone plays by the same rules, which you seem to be doing). Just fix the spikey bit. Please.

I really dont care if we all need to hit with strike x to activate our flavourful mitigation. As long as it's all the same and one of us isn't the odd man out like we have now. Come on.

Charsi nailed it. It's not the active mitigation that many of us have a problem with. Active mitigation is all about control, and tanks as a general rule love having more control over whether they live or die.

Hell, the main problem isn't even blood shield! I think there are better ways that it could work, but even if left alone it wouldn't be the end of the world. No, the problem is that we can take a completely unmitigated hit on weaker armor. The heal from DS is part of our class identity, but the armor loss combined with incomplete CTC means that there can be huge swings in our incoming damage.
Right now it's tough for DK tanks because they're the only ones on anything resembling an active mitigation model. The one active mitigation guy is going to look like he's working harder than the passive mitigation guys because, in a lot of ways, he is. If all tanks had worked this way from the start, it would be the norm, and nobody would be worried about jumping onto that model.

We've already established that threat isn't making for very compelling encounter design, and removing it offers us the ability to get creative with some of the mechanics that we're using; both in encounter and class design. In a world with no threat management, and no active mitigation, that doesn't leave a lot for tanks to do though. We think that making tanking more active, and focusing that activity around mitigation (which feels immediately useful) will generate some very rewarding gameplay. We want the act of tanking to be engaging, interesting and fun. We think the path forward will offer more of that for all the tanking classes.

Also, I've seen a number of references to making tanking easier in this thread and elsewhere. "Easier" isn't really the goal. The goal is to discard a mechanic which we don't think is working particularly well anymore, and replace it with something more focused and interesting. Doing so should also have the effect of allowing tanks who aren't as geared still do their job when grouped with players who outgear (or even outlevel them a bit). They'll still be responsible for doing a good job, but their absolute ability to hold the attention of the boss won't be a factor; their ability to play well and mitigate damage will be.

We're aware of player concerns about Blood tanking, and we'll work to ensure that Blood tanking will continue to be viable and effective into the future. On that note, we're interested in addressing some of the concerns that have been expressed about the spec (potentially as soon as the next major patch), though we want to accomplish that goal without sacrificing what sets the spec apart and makes it interesting.


What I'm a bit concerned about, is that I don't want to see a large drop in Tank DPS.

I enjoy solo content as a Tank spec, and I've gotten used to doing that, because Tanks do put out enough DPS that we can do decent solo work, especially when we pull multiple mobs at once.

If we start shifting the ability focus from DPS attacks to Mitigation attacks, I'd rather not see a repeat of Burning Crusade where tanks did such laughable DPS, that it took forever and ever and ever to actually kill anything as a tank spec.

With that said, if you make a bunch of Mitigation abilities, what is a solo tank gonna do while soloing mobs? All of that extra Mitigation won't be necessary while I'm fighting a non-elite solo mob. Do I just stare at the screen while my character auto-attacks, while throwing the occasional Judgment or Crusader/Hammer? Or are you going to give us MORE abilities and make our Rotation even harder, so that we still have Hammers, Judgment, Avenger's, Holy Wrath, Inq, PLUS new abilities? Or are you changing most of our DPS abilities to do DPS -and- Mitigation at the same time?

Kinda curious about this.....

I don't want to abandon my tank specs, and be forced into DPS to level, especially when you guys refuse to give us a decent non-Raid weapon for our DPS spec.
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I've found having to worry about threat to be good entertainment, both in the past, and in the limited tanking I've done in Cata. Surely there must be a way you guys can get "creative" while maintaining this fun aspect of the game, in addition to increasing the challenge.


Right now it's tough for DK tanks because they're the only ones on anything resembling an active mitigation model. The one active mitigation guy is going to look like he's working harder than the passive mitigation guys because, in a lot of ways, he is. If all tanks had worked this way from the start, it would be the norm, and nobody would be worried about jumping onto that model.

We've already established that threat isn't making for very compelling encounter design, and removing it offers us the ability to get creative with some of the mechanics that we're using; both in encounter and class design. In a world with no threat management, and no active mitigation, that doesn't leave a lot for tanks to do though. We think that making tanking more active, and focusing that activity around mitigation (which feels immediately useful) will generate some very rewarding gameplay. We want the act of tanking to be engaging, interesting and fun. We think the path forward will offer more of that for all the tanking classes.

Also, I've seen a number of references to making tanking easier in this thread and elsewhere. "Easier" isn't really the goal. The goal is to discard a mechanic which we don't think is working particularly well anymore, and replace it with something more focused and interesting. Doing so should also have the effect of allowing tanks who aren't as geared still do their job when grouped with players who outgear (or even outlevel them a bit). They'll still be responsible for doing a good job, but their absolute ability to hold the attention of the boss won't be a factor; their ability to play well and mitigate damage will be.

We're aware of player concerns about Blood tanking, and we'll work to ensure that Blood tanking will continue to be viable and effective into the future. On that note, we're interested in addressing some of the concerns that have been expressed about the spec (potentially as soon as the next major patch), though we want to accomplish that goal without sacrificing what sets the spec apart and makes it interesting.


What about Hunter Pet Tanking? Will Tenacity Pets be affected by these changes as well?
08/16/2011 06:59 PMPosted by Charsi
Right now it's tough for DK tanks because they're the only ones on anything resembling an active mitigation model.


No, it's tough because they take more damage under the expectation of healing it back, and die when damage is too high. Fix that part. The active part is fine (provided everyone plays by the same rules, which you seem to be doing). Just fix the spikey bit. Please.

I really dont care if we all need to hit with strike x to activate our flavourful mitigation. As long as it's all the same and one of us isn't the odd man out like we have now. Come on.


A thousand times this.
08/16/2011 07:09 PMPosted by Krinu
No, the problem is that we can take a completely unmitigated hit on weaker armor. The heal from DS is part of our class identity, but the armor loss combined with incomplete CTC means that there can be huge swings in our incoming damage.


this
08/16/2011 07:04 PMPosted by Falangen
On that note, we're interested in addressing some of the concerns that have been expressed about the spec (potentially as soon as the next major patch)


Hear that?! Come 4.3 we'll be viable again for tanking. YEAH!!



Worst case Scenario.... other tanks are made just as viable as DKs are now and the boss fights are eventually "adjusted" to the DKs current viability.
08/16/2011 07:12 PMPosted by Darkinin
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I've found having to worry about threat to be good entertainment, both in the past, and in the limited tanking I've done in Cata. Surely there must be a way you guys can get "creative" while maintaining this fun aspect of the game, in addition to increasing the challenge.


While some threat has its places, I didn't really much like it.

Basically, DPS = Threat for a tank, in Live right now.

All of the things I do to increase my DPS, also increases threat, so... DO BOTH!

The only thing Threat does, is...

1). Make life Miserable when the Tank is lower geared than his DPS groupmates (especially entry-level tanks),

2). Make the beginning of boss battles more difficult, and cause us to waste resources (instead of yanno, trying to save them till the end of the fight) to try and get the thing under control ASAP because of how Vengeance works,

3). Make LFD dungeons take longer when DPS has to throttle to avoid pulling threat,

4). Create more squabbling when elite DPS decide to refuse to throttle because of a weaker tank that is just starting out.

It is unnecessary drama and I never found it "fun". When the tank is capable of holding threat, nobody cares about threat. When the tank can't hold threat because of sheer numbers, then everybody hates it.

There is no "middle-ground" and I think GC has the right idea here.
I don't think anyone here that is qq about this post really understands the meaning behind what the Daxxarri is explaining. Read it till you understand it. It makes a whole lot of sense. Blizz is trying to make tanking more interactive, fun and less of a chore. QQ some more people.



"Don't be afraid of change"
"Evolve with it, don't fight it"


The complaints are stemming from the fact that they're wanting to model the other tanks after the worst raid tanks in the game because they think the system "works" even though the people actually playing the spec at the highest levels have been telling them "No, the system you put into place for us is actually quite broken and dysfunctional." since Cataclysm was being beta tested.

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