Class Feedback – Death Knight

Death Knight
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What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Both

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Heroics and Raids.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Arenas and Battlegrounds.


What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Both Frost specs using Unholy Presence just doesn't feel right to me.

What makes playing your class more fun?
The unique rune system, also DK lore.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Rune starvation

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
It's fine, no complaints.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Frost presence for frost death knights, also Blood-caked blade being available for DPS. It's useless at the moment.

What spells do you use the least?
Blood strike
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PVP

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
Having to toggle autoclaw on and off in order to gnaw/leap when I need to is a pain. The level of micromanagement on the pet's energy bar is not fun, it's mundane.

What makes playing your class more fun?
My pet. Anti Magic Zone.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Frost spec. The lack of utility (other than high damage and mindless desecration spam) that I bring to the table.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
I feel like necrotic strike has ruined DK rotations. In frost I spam necrotic; in unholy, I spam necrotic. Death coil and festering strike are just ways of getting more runes for necrotic strike.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Make Gnaw and Leap cost 0 energy, they have long CDs anyway. Allow Leap to be used in melee range and to break roots when the pet is under dark transformation.


What spells do you use the least?
Blood strike, scourge strike, obliterate.
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvP, sometimes PvE. [Frost only]

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Heroic dungeons, some normal dungeons.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Battlegrounds.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Cast time for Hungering Cold and the fact that it can be interrupting with a longer-than-pleasant cooldown time.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Anything involving ghouls and diseases.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Runes can be annoying to keep track of during high adrenaline moments. Hungering Cold issue detailed above. Fun abilities getting removed - will elaborate on for Wish List answer.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Perfect as is... for Frost, anyway. The Unholy PvE rotation feels cluttered and gimmicky in regards to the Dark Transformation thing. Take it out? Rework it?

What’s on your wish list for your class?
I want Corpse Explosion to come back! It was fun, useful, and morbid. I also wish, instead of having a battle rez just like druid's, we could have our ability to raise an ally as a ghoul back. Give the player more time to figure out that they're a ghoul and see what their abilities are. I'd also like it if Horn of Winter was a little different from the warrior's Battle Shout.

What spells do you use the least?
Icy Touch, Blood Tap, Blood Strike, Blood Boil, Dark Command. I actually use most of my spells on a regular basis!
■What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]


Both

■If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]


Normal mode 10 mans as either Frost DPS or Blood Tanking.

■If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


Rated BG's as Frost. Sometimes arenas with friends.

■What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


For starters, DK battle rez, while nice for it's utility and I'm glad it replaced the old ghoul rez, party members come back so low that sometimes it becomes moot in a raid with lots of AoE.

Hungering cold, while deserving it's nerf, could have been handled better. Just like how Warrior's old Intimidating Shout used to target infinite number of players, why not just give HC a cap on targets like fears? Or alternatively, reduce the cast time to 1 second instead of the current speed? Also, giving Hungering Cold more utility in PvE would be most welcome. How about making it last a bit longer on mobs? HC breaks on the slightest damage (except diseases) and can be cleansed, so perhaps making it a little more user friendly would be nice. Also don't forget the very short range of HC and how DK's are typically in the middle of the melee and prone to being focused by them because of DK survivability issues, which means lots of interrupts flying around. DK's lost a survival cooldown because of the long cast time.

Speaking of crowd control, is it possible to somehow work Howling Blast to not hit CC'd targets? It's the primary method of putting diseases up as Frost and an integral part of our dps rotation. Yes I know that we can use Icy Touch on single targets with CC, but that's a problem of itself. IT is another keybind that I would have to macro. I already use a frost rune on either Chains of Ice or Howling Blast, I really don't like of having to use another keybind just to have a 4th way to place Frost Fever on a target. If not have it ignore CC, how about buff the Chains glyph to at least do comparable damage to Icy Touch or add Chains of Ice to the Rime talent?

Dark Sim, while incredibly fun and powerful if the right spell is stolen from an enemy caster, it is very clunky to use. Mostly on how the ability fuctions in a macro. Currently, if I try and make a focus macro with Dark Sim, I can cast it on my focus target and copy a spell, but I cannot press my macro again to use the captured spell. I need a 2nd keybind to release it. If the mechanics behind it could somehow allow DK's to release the captured spell while Dark Sim is in a macro, that would make the ability much more useful. Also increasing slightly how the captured spell scales with our attack power would help. Usually, unless I copy a utility spell (such as Blink, Fear, Ring of Frost, Hex, Pally Wings, other utility spells), Dark Sim is hardly worth using as losing that GCD is annoying at best, because the damage spell is pitifully weak.

■What makes playing your class more fun?


The best parts of being a Death Knight is definatly being a melee/caster hybrid. The rune system combined with using sexy two handed weapons is quite fun thematically. Perfectly executing abilities in PvP to control enemies is incredibly satisfying as well as being able to seemlessly go from single target to AoE.

Dark Sim, while having a couple issues, is so much fun when a powerful spell is copied. Some of my favorite times playing are of unleashing powerful enemy abilities to turn the tides of battle!

The extra utility of having two permanent death runes as Frost is very nice.

I also love Unholy Presence, the reduced GCD is very fun. I would be a bit disappointed if I had to go back to the slow pace of Frost Presence.

Soloing old content is also very fun. Not much needs to be said, I just enjoy doing it.
Continued

■What makes playing your class less fun?


Non Blood survivability is very weak right now, especially in pvp where frost DK's have low mobility and horrible defenses against melee. I personally think the nerf to the Death Strike glyph was a bit much. The old DS was 7% and was buffed to 15% healing with the glyph because of low survivability. Now that the base is 7% again, the old issue is back. Why not split the difference? Make the heal 10% or 11%?

Blood tanking is currently an act in frustration. It requires so much and suffers from bad stat allocation. If we don't get near the hit and expertise cap, Death Strike misses/is dodged/is parried and we miss on a big heal and a powerful shield. Same with Heart Strike if Blade Barrier is about to fall off and we get a string of bad misses/avoidances. All this means less stats to pump our damage reduction stats. So either way we go, damage reduction or hit/miss stats, we have weakened survivability. I know you guys promised to fix Blood tanking in the next patch, but it's still currently here and it can't hurt to remind.

"Rune Juggling" while fun as dps before the Blood of the North change, is pretty bad when doing it as Blood. By juggling I mean holding onto a blood rune until the last second before the other rune comes off cooldown in order to force more unholy and frost runes through runic empowerment. It's risky because if I miss that Heart Stike right when the blood rune comes off cooldown, then Blade Barrier will fall off. I actually like rune juggling as a DK, it's just clunky with Bloods current mechanics.

I do however greatly dislike being Unholy. It's the least fun of the specs dispite it's good pvp utility. I personally do not like pet classes. Frost has always been my favorite spec (especially two-hand frost) and I like using it in pvp. Being "forced" to go Unholy because it provides the best utility or best damage or best control or anything like that makes me not want to play this class.

On a minor note, I prefer two hander to dual wielding but's it's hardly a big deal.

■How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)


I'm actually pretty happy overall with our rotations. Non fixed, dynamic rotations have always been my favorite. It's one of the reasons I prefer Frost over Blood and Unholy. I still love the utility we get by having two permenent Death Runes.

■What’s on your wish list for your class?


Several to say the list, mostly what I have already stated, but I'll do a small recap:

Some method to make DK battle rez more useful.

Make Hungering Cold a bit more user friendly.

Howling Blast ignoring CC or Chains of Ice glyph doing more damage and being on the Rime talent.

Dark Sim being fixed when used with macros and doing more damage or healing when a utility spell is not copied.

Increase Death Strike healing or the glyph heal to around 10 or 11%.

Fix Blood tanking to where it's not an act of frustation just to stay alive.

Make two hand and dual wield a bit more equal for those that like a choice.

Continue to allow Frost to have a role in organized PvP. It's there now, but I don't want it to go away again like in the past.

Give taunts utility in pvp. Not sure why this has never been implemented in the past. Other spells make players lose target such as Feign Death and Mirrior image. Rogue distract also makes a player stop movement and change direction. All its good for now is to sometimes get a pet off or keep a healer in combat.

Make Army of the Dead slightly stronger so that it's at least not a dps loss when using it in the middle of a rotation when the boss enters a burn phase.

■What spells do you use the least?


Depends on the spec really. Most abilities have some function of use, especially in pvp, no matter how trivial. Even if it's just to keep a rogue off a flag in AB.

As Frost pvp, Blood Stike, Festering Strike, Icy Touch, Frost Presence, Rune Strike, Pestilence, and Plague Strike have no use, but that's fine, keybinds keep getting more and more full each patch it seems. Death Strike is next to useless in it's current state. Every other ability has some form of pvp utility.
■What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Completely PvE, predominately as a tank.

■If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Anything and everything I can get involved in.

■If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
N/A.

■What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Wasting runes on replenishing diseases for mitigation, probably my largest gripe. Though there is also the fact that we are the only tank without a stun.

■What makes playing your class more fun?
That many people absolutely fail at Blood tanking, and only a select few can do it properly. I love how the class is entirely in control of their own mitigation.

■What makes playing your class less fun?
As mentioned before, keeping those diseases up. So much so, that the majority of the time I do not even bother unless I'm in the middle of a boss encounter.

■How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
I love it, though it would be nice if we didn't have to sit on runes, and waste potentially life-saving runes on disease replenishment.

■What’s on your wish list for your class?
As Blood, a refreshment for diseases (i.e. Pestilence refreshes diseases on current target).
A reason to not always have to sit on runes for Death Strike (i.e. a talent that turns damage taken within a time limit into the replenishment of two runes).

To elaborate on the second "wish":
Blood Watch
Following a successful Death Strike, damage taken that exceeds 20% of your maximum health within the next 5 seconds of your Blood Shield failing instantly replenishes two random runes. 15 second cooldown.

■What spells do you use the least?
As Blood, there are a few abilities that I rarely, if ever use. Though those abilities are quite useful to other specs, so I can't really list them.


Overall, I'd say this class, at least from the perspective of a Blood PvE tank, is pretty damn near perfectly designed. Well done, Blizzard.
09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What’s on your wish list for your class?


I wanted to add to this from my post.

Hungering Cold, don't force me to take this worthless talent anymore please.
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

Mainly PVP but I do PVE on the side

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

I raid but not seriously

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

All of the above

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Honestly we just need more skills that put diseases up... it's a pain having to use plague strike for a blood plague and Outbreak cd seems a little too long.

What makes playing your class more fun?

I love the way frost burst dmg works out.

What makes playing your class less fun?

Unholy is much too pet dependent, and it hits like a lil girl without dark transformation up, and with gargoyle on a 3 min cd it's all but useless to play an unholy dk in any bgs where it;d be more fun.
Also, survivability is pretty horrible, death knights are almost always the target focused simply because the survivability cd's do very little to stop us dying.
Sacrificing out pet is the only use our pet has as anything beside unholy, oh and our pet needs a buff or unholy death knights need a buff, because they don't hit hard enough alone. The nerf to dark succor glyph was needed but now death strike is one of the most useless skills as a dk (beside blood dks) because it heals for extremely low, costs 2 runes and is just a complete waste of runes.
As unholy, scourge strike is pretty useless now. It hits a VERY tiny bit harder than necro strike, but its such a small difference its not even worth using anything beside necrotic strike.
As frost, obliterate is getting to be a pretty useless skill. Ive seen a lot of it not all high end dk's not even bother putting oblit on their skill bar because against anything besides a clothie its useless. The dmg it does to anything with armour is pretty bad, fix this please?
I want to be able to use my main skill after all.
Also our diseases are pretty useless at the moment... they tick for useless dmg and its only real use is for frosts oblit, but as I said that skills never used so.... buff the dmg of diseases please?
Oh and hungring cold cast time... seriously? Get rid of that !@#$.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

The rotation for pve is great

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Most of what I said before... more survivability, more usefulness to some of our skills and a buff to unholy spec itself or to out pet atleast... and to diseases which are all but useless.

What spells do you use the least?

Boil blood is useless once a fight starts, blood strike shouldn't even be in the game anymore, scourge strike is turning out to be useless because of its horrible dmg compared to necro which is the same thing except with a healing debuff, pestilence i dont think ive ever used in my life, and icy touch is a skill i dont think anyone ever touches anymore.
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

I do both types of content. PVE is my main focus, however i am still a human because of pvp. Pvp is like watching a 30 minute show, raiding is like watching lord of the rings trilogy.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

Raids, and getting to tier 12 heroic raids, raided only 5/12 heroic in t 11 though we started late into the race. I do heroics on occasion if im not vp capped and old raids for transmog loots.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

I do arenas and Battlegrounds, I would like to do rated battle grounds but Its hard to work in around raiding and arenas. I often hve enough for maybe a party of 5 at most, but never 10 or i would do rated bg's.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement


Honestly, a pvp only third spec. Just an additional speccing thing you can get, perhaps through pvp points (honor, conquest) maybe 4k honor 4k conquest. I pvp a great deal as Frost, and because in raids I tank (blood obviously) and offspec dps(unholy for the bubble) I am forced to respec generally 2 or 3 times a week at minimum. I know 66 gold isnt a huge amount, but it adds up over time and really almost discourages me from doing both pvp and pve.

What makes playing your class more fun?

I enjoy the Necrotic strike which allows me a chance to kill healers. I like how the tanking is more involved than other classes, i like the cool-down shuffle. It leave little room for error and when i find myself without one i feel naked, but it keeps me involved.

What makes playing your class less fun?

The cast time on hungering cold. I have been using frost since late in wrath ( i used blood but when i heard it was being removed i switched ) I understand that hungering cold needed a nerf of some sort because it was op. I think there were better ways to fix the "problem." Perhaps a 5 second freeze vice the current 10 second, either way making a "i have to stand still to cast this" for a melee class is pretty silly. Its pvp, if a melee is standing still they are doing it wrong. I wish the glyph could be changed to "allow hungering cold to be cast on the move” But removing the requiring 0 rp thing. Another idea, make the hungering cold glyph "reduces rp required to cast to 0 but lowers the time frozen by 5 s." Really, a 5 sec hungering cold being instant would be better, instant cyclones still go down, at times will have 15 seconds of being cycloned without being able to move, im not sure how that's any different. I miss hungering cold more because it worked like an interrupt, yes I know dk's have 2 solid interrupts and a dg if you can get over 8 yards.
In addition, the hungering cold was definetly an aid in survivability. My healer can get chain cc'd to the point he cant get a heal off for 20' + seconds. (let’s say a good mage and feral druid combo) Druid gets him cycloned, frost mage puts ring of frost under him, he gets out of the cyclone, gets frozen, moves a step, frozen, moves a step, frozen ROF fades, while its fading mage blinks casts, sheep, sheeped for 7 seconds, sheep is gonna wear of, cycloned again. this type of thing DOES happen, and leaves me frustrated as their is little I can do aside from killing one of them before the 2 can kill me. 2 on 1 is never fun, and with no heals, even less so. Occasions like this Could have been broken up by a hungering cold. The surviveability of frost dk's is pretty much comparable to a wet noodle. Every other melee class can outheal a dk. Its just silly, ds glyph needed a nerf but the surviveability is nearly 0 with the hungering cold changes.. (ghoul sanct, self-ds lichborne, and ds are heals available to dk's and i use them as much as possible, but each is a little difficult to use without having built up first, ghoul sanct requires the ghoul to have been up for x amount of seconds, self-ds gives your opponent a chance (if a priest or pally) to take advantage of your "undead" situation..." And ds, well...I don’t think I need to say any more)

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

I think that all 3 "rotations" are ok, i play all 3 specs of dk.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

-Survivabilty in frost, perhaps a talent switch (hungering cold NOT required for howling blast)
-More damage for unholy
-And for blood, new runeforge "reduces all damage taken by an additional 7% and 1% dodge and parry"
-Dark simalucrum to have a longer "use"

What spells do you use the least?

Blood strike, it is effectively useless. Seriously, it’s such a sad little strike, it hasn’t seen my bar since dk bootcamp. :( Poor little guy.
Posted by Nethaera
What’s on your wish list for your class?


I wanted to add to this from my post.

Hungering Cold, don't force me to take this worthless talent anymore please.


This ^
What type of content do you focus on? Lately, both

If PvE, what type of PvE? Raids

If PvP, what type of PvP? Arenas

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?

Not being able to use a two-hander without either gimping my damage or also herding a pet through raids is a constant drag. I absolutely loved Blood DPS when it was still cool, and I honestly rather enjoyed Unholy during T10, but having an ability that further buffs my pet's damage (and having to micromanage it) is just too high a price to pay for being able to swing a big weapon. This really doesn't make the class any less viable or even much less fun, but it's a style issue that I wish I didn't have to deal with. If you can do anything to make 2H Frost viable, that's at the top of my wish list.

Not being able to collect old tier sets. I collect old two-handers instead (I have like 80 of them in my bank; yay void starage!), but I wouldn't say no to sharing Might, etc., with Warriors. ;)

What makes playing your class more fun?

I love the atmosphere. I can stand in fire every 45 seconds because I'm a death knight and I'm not afraid of things like that. I initially hated not having a rotation, but the fact that Frost requires the player to adapt to changing conditions is actually part of what keeps me playing. I enjoy being able to do old content alone or with a few friends just because death knights are that hard core.

What makes playing your class less fun?

Poor scaling for secondary stats makes reforging a pain. Some of this is caused by the fact that I need about 2% hit rating from gear.

Personally, I also feel that the class as a whole was over-nerfed, in terms of survivability, for this expansion. I realize our devs needed to make up for the (undeniable) utility of Blood's death strike, but Frost and Unholy just don't benefit from that attack. For me, standing toe to toe with a warrior or a rogue is a lesson in humility. I'm no longer a melee class, per se; I'm actually just a caster with a crappy frost lance, trying to kite some poor guy into oblivion. If someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong, go for it, but from where I stand, this just doesn't feel right.

Managing two diseases that do minimal damage. Seriously: 800 DPS each while I'm doing ~25-35k. They're just annoying.

How do you feel about your “rotation”?

I like not going through a list of attacks by rote. It does sometimes feel a little herky-jerky when procs just don't happen. I might like to see a setup wherein my stats affect the odds of some of these procs happening, so that preparation (not just blind luck) also has an effect on my DPS. Maybe critical Obliterates would have an increased chance to proc Howling Blast, or something along those lines. Crit is all but worthless as things stand now.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Better survivability for DPS specs against other melee classes. Feel free to nerf blood a little to compensate for making the class as a whole harder to kill.

Empower Rune Weapon should increase rune regen speed by X% for Y seconds rather than giving you your runes all at once. A 2-3 minute cooldown would be good, too.

Each spec (blood, frost, unholy) should have one disease that is unique to it and must be applied via some special attack. The other disease (though it may behave differently for each spec) would just be applied by regular melee attacks (and not spread by pestilence). Then you could unnerf pestilence, too.

Note: it isn't so much that I want diseases to do more damage. I just want them to waste less of my time and other resources. Using Plague Strike once per minute because I like the buff to my Obliterates rubs me the wrong way. We aren't spriests or warlocks. We don't need "dot" spells. Disease applicators need to die (including Outbreak), and not just for the sake of older players who have become annoyed with them: learning the DK class is confusing in part because new players wind up using these as attacks.

What spells do you use the least?

Two words: Plague. Strike.

Blood boil is also pretty bad.

Pestilence feels like a waste of a rune (for DPS).

Necrotic strike hits like a limp noodle and makes me cry, but I use it.

Outbreak's one minute CD makes me loathe to use it except on bosses.

Empower Rune Weapon is also reserved for bosses due to its cooldown and relative lack of power.

Dark Simulacrum I use about three times a week, usually on Zanzil, and I usually don't get Zanzil Fire. Making this useable after the start of a cast would make it way more attractive.

Army of the Dead costs too much (both in time and resources) for me to use it effectively. (Asking tanks to give a countdown before pulling is bad.) I use it maybe twice a week, for Baleroc or when everything goes bad in a heroic. An instant cast that summons ghouls over time and a cost of ~50 runic power (not runes) would help.
I am not going to block this out because the majority of my issues have been stated repeatedly such as the rng dependence for frost, and the damage spikes for blood. The only thing that I would like to see would be some kind of threat dump for dps specced dk's, most of the other dps classes have them in some fashion, and the ones that dont can stop attacking to drop threat. A dk with diseases up cannot just stop attacking.
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvP
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
None
If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Battlegrounds and arenas.
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
For PvP I hate that you have to do an RBG to cap for points.
What makes playing your class more fun?
Damage output.
What makes playing your class less fun?
Having no chance against a decent mage.
How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
I don't really have a rotation, since PvP is more reflex/use-ceratain-moves-for-certain-situations kinda thing.
What’s on your wish list for your class?
Shorter Death Grip Cooldown and a reason to use Frost Presence in Frost spec.
What spells do you use the least?
Festering Strike
Plague Strike
Icy Touch
Blood Strike
Frost Presence
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
both
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
heroics
If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
all of the above
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
the fact that one of our cc's (hungering cold) takes casting time, if by at any moment this happens to be interupted you are now locked out of your spells. as a melee based class i find this a huge problem as now you rendered mostly useless for that time. which is exetremely critical in pvp not so much pve.
What makes playing your class more fun? peeling and great damage bursts
What makes playing your class less fun? the rune system at times becomes a pain to constantly watch.
How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.) death knights, frost specifically don't have a rotation but more of a priority on what is available for you to use but over all i am happy with this.
What’s on your wish list for your class? casting time on hungering cold to go away.
What spells do you use the least? icy touch
-What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
--Primarily PvE as a Tank

-If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
--Primarily Heroics but only because there are no pugs for Raids. Blood/Frost specs

-If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
--BGs

-What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
--Disease uptime while tanking. however the Outbreak buff seems to be set to clear that up for the most part. I would say the over dependence on Blood Shield can be a burden when it varies wildly from strike to strike due to the 'damage taken' variable. Also the RNG aspect of the Rune Empowerment can result it stretches without runes which can often result in leaving me wide open to attack.

-What makes playing your class more fun?
--I would say the uniqueness of it's playstyle. No other class operates the way we do and so we offer a experience unlike any other.

-What makes playing your class less fun?
--Being rune starved due to Runic Empowerment failing. Having Blood Shield behave erratically due to its variable.

-How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
--I feel pretty good. I'd like more room to change things up while Tanking at times. Necrotic Strike is too good to pass up on some fights and frankly hitting the wrong key at times can result in an imminent damage spike that can result in a wipe.

-What’s on your wish list for your class?
--Oh the choices! Listed in no particular order:
1: a 30 second CD on Outbreak(oh wait we're getting that already yay!)
2: Less variable on Blood Shield or more avoidance to counter it.
3: A Bone Shield that won't break off so quickly.
4: The cast time removed from Hungering Cold. (Seriously, tacking that on was uncalled for it's not even a real stun.)
5: Lower RunePower cost on Dancing Rune Weapon
6: A stunning move. Maybe change Strangulate into a 3sec stun like Hammer of Justice.

-What spells do you use the least?
--Blood Strike, (but I think you intended it to phase out didin't you?) and Festering Strike (But only because the Frost Rune is best spent elsewhere)

Thank you for reading this and thank you for making a class unlike any other.
I've put a lot of heartache and headache into composing this, so here's hoping it gets read by the appropriate parties. Cheers to anyone that is willing to take the time to "like" or read through this monumental undertaking. This will extend over the next four posts due to the character limit per post.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

End game PVE, and some PVP.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

Heroic twenty five man raid content, with DPS being my primary role.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

Some arena and rated battlegrounds; due to the state of Death Knights in the current season, I've remained largely unengaged in any serious PVP.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

[Blood Tap] Blood Tap prioritizing our first blood rune is a bit nonsensical, and I cannot help but feel that this was an unintentional change introduced with the new rune model. With the Cataclysm rune model, Blood Tap activating a charging blood rune is much less valuable than having it activate a fully depleted rune; but the current implementation of Blood Tap does not differentiate between this. It will always activate the first blood rune (that is, the "recharging" one) and not the secondary, fully depleted, rune. In addition, Blood Tap will often fail to produce a rune at all if it is used while the first blood rune is still available, or shortly after it has completed recharging. My suggestion to improve this would simply be to have Blood Tap always activate the secondary, fully depleted (or longer time to recharge), rune and not the actively recharging one.

[Mobility (a lack thereof)] Death Knight mobility has, since their introduction, been the worst of any class within the game. This is a major quality of life issue, especially in PVP, where, since their defensive abilities have been neutered repeatedly, they are now the primary target in most scenarios. Death Knights are most often the target of choice because they cannot escape; it is easy for any class to fix to them and they cannot alleviate the pressure. I feel that the original implementation of Death's Advance was an intelligent and ideal solution to Death Knight's defensive mobility needs; it allowed Death Knights to keep high mobility while being trained by opposing melee, while having limited offensive use, as it required keeping the Death Knight's unholy runes on CD (which are the primary resource for offensive damage). Furthermore, it required the Death Knight to already be in melee range, and did not affect roots, stuns, and other forms of crowd control, only snares. The post nerfed state of the talent fails to remedy any of the underlying mobility issues surrounding the class.

[Negative Resource Regeneration] In the current model of haste scaling and how that interplays with our rune system, we are severely penalized when afflicted with any negative form of a haste debuff or one that causes a reduction to our attack speed. This is significant quality of life issue in a number of PVE situations, namely in various dungeons, trash, and less recent boss encounters. Why a mechanic that was implemented to address scaling and to endow the new Cataclysm rune model is subjected to regressive behavior is beyond anyone; it is doubly baffling that our rune speed receives no benefit from buffs that increase our attack speed (Improved Icy Talons and identical buffs), and only the drawbacks of those that reduce it.

[Frost] [Killing Machine and Avoidance] Currently, when Frost Strike or Obliterate is used in conjunction with the Killing Machine buff, and the subsequent attack is avoided, the buff is then consumed despite the attack not landing. I feel that this is a significant quality of life issue, in both PVE and PVP, and needlessly penalizes Frost Death Knights in those situations where getting parried is oft unavoidable (Ragnaros), in addition to the DPS loss getting parried to begin with.
[Continued]

[Frost] [Spell Hit for Dual Wield] A major quality of life issue for dual wielding frost Death Knights involves the Nerves of Cold Steel talent, which grants the Death Knight melee hit, but not spell hit. This is extremely annoying because it is not worth itemizing for hit past the melee hit cap, but frost Death Knights have key abilities which are affected by the spell hit cap. In particular, it is extremely frustrating because Howling Blast and Outbreak are affected by the spell hit cap, and these two abilities apply debuffs integral to our rotation; the only spells that this talent hinders are spells that are proc related (Freezing Fog) or have a significant CD (Outbreak), which are lost when the abilities miss. My suggestion to improve this would be to bring Nerves of Cold Steel in line with the Rogue talent, Precision. Having this talent increase the Death Knight's chance to hit with one handed melee weapons and spells, in addition to increasing the damage dealt with the off hand, would remedy the issue while ensuring it remains an unattractive talent any non dual wield oriented spec.

[Unholy] [Gnaw] With the current iteration of Claw and how quickly our ghoul consumes energy, it is impossible to use Gnaw without having to disable Claw all together and allowing energy to accumulate prior to activating it. My suggestion to improve this would be to simply remove any cost for this ability; there is no reason for Gnaw to cost any energy whatsoever other than to inconvenience the Death Knight.

[Unholy] [Shadow Infusion] The "ramp up" time to transform our ghoul, I feel, is a bit excessive. For a 6% damage increase per stack, having this ability stacked five times to transform our pet feels unnecessarily punitive to the Death Knight. Having to stack Shadow Infusion five times is a dated mechanic from when Dark Transformation was far more potent. This is, in particular, a problem during Heroism (or similar effects, eg some trinket procs), when ideally we want our pet to be transformed during this time, and we are simultaneously experiencing rune "capping", which leaves the Death Knight with an ambiguous and confusing shift in their priority system. My suggestion to improve this would be to lower the maximum stacks of Shadow Infusion from five to three (10/20/30% damage increase per stack, up from 6/12/18/24/30%).

[Unholy] [Summon Gargoyle and melee] Summon Gargoyle has a frustrating bug which can significantly lower the damage output of the spell; it consistently chooses to melee rather than cast when it flies into melee range of the target, which is difficult or impossible to avoid (depending on the hit box of the target). Given the longer CD and cost, it is frustrating to any Unholy Death Knight to have the overall value of our most powerful ability lowered due to clunky mechanics. My suggestion to improve this would be to disable the ability of the gargoyle to melee all together, much like a Warlock's imp. Another idea would be to have the gargoyle start casting from where it is spawned, instead of descending towards the target. Given how easy it is to "pillar" a gargoyle in an arena, I don't feel that it would be a cause for concern to revert the long ago change that forced the gargoyle to descend into melee range. Although, without further addressing the handful of additional AI issues surrounding the spell, my former suggestion would likely be more reliable of the two.

[Unholy] [Unholy Frenzy] The health cost for using Unholy Frenzy gives the ability a significant, negative drawback. This is particularly painful during progression, and the use of this ability must be delayed or forgone entirely on some fights, such as Chimaeron. It would be a huge quality of life improvement if this ability could have its drawback removed with a glyph, precisely as Warriors can remove the negative effects of Death Wish with a glyph.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What makes playing your class more fun?

I enjoy playing a melee class that is so unique. The class has a certain allure about it to me, and I fell in love with it the moment I experienced it. Having a mix of melee and spell based abilities, a unique resource(s) system, as well as being able to wear plate, utilize a two handed weapon, or dual wield, are some of the things that have made playing a Death Knight a breath of fresh air.
[Continued]

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What makes playing your class less fun?


While I'm sure this will fall into the "not helpful" kind of feedback, I want to be truthful; when I know that I'm playing exceptionally well, meanwhile micro managing an array of resources, procs, I have favorable RNG, and I am consistently doing considerably less DPS than the same several classes regardless of the encounter ("Patchwerk", AoE, etc), it is frustrating. It is disheartening, and for a lack of better terminology, it makes playing my class "less fun".

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

I am comfortable with our rotation and I enjoy utilizing abilities from two unique resources. Speaking specifically for each (DPS) spec; I do enjoy Frost, however I do not enjoy the oft bipolar behavior of Runic Empowerment. While I enjoy the model for Unholy, during periods where we experience a surfeit of haste (Heroism), the speed at which runes are gained, and consequential runic power, I feel that our "rotation" can be an enigma. While other classes will experience a significant DPS increase in these situations, I cannot help but feel that I am not experiencing that same gain, due to how much of my resources I'm simultaneously losing or having to compromise.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What’s on your wish list for your class?

[Dark Simulacrum] Dark Simulacrum is a unique ability that requires a certain level of intuition, timing, and luck from the Death Knight. However, between the heinous coefficient any damaging ability receives from the copied spell, the plethora of abilities that simply cannot be stolen (despite having a mana cost) or that can be but are unusable (Nether Ward), it is often a wash when used. On the off chance you're able to catch a beneficial spell; Iceblock, for example, rarely can it be utilized in a clever, thoughtful manner, due to a dismal twenty second duration before the spell is expired. My wish is for this ability to receive a bit of refining and polish; nonsensical elements of a captured spell such as Deep Freeze requiring a frozen target, the captured spell dissipating prior to the CD of Dark Simulacrum being available again, etc. I feel that, given a bit of attention, Dark Simulacrum has the potential to be one of the most fun, interesting, and rewarding spells when utilized intelligently.

[Pestilence for non Unholy Death Knights] Pestilence was always an integral part of debuff application and target switching for Death Knights, until Cataclysm, when that fundamental was made exclusive to Unholy. The damage of our diseases is abysmal, and combined with the abhorrent crit rate of all Death Knight abilities (with the exception of Killing Machine), halving the damage to our diseases has rendered it all but useless. Between the two specs that this influences, Frost forgoes the use of Pestilence entirely, while Blood renounces it to a limited niche. My wish is to see Pestilence restored to Blood and Frost Death Knights. This would provide a balm to Blood Death Knight area of effect tanking and return it to Frost's target swapping toolkit.

[One Second GCD, Baseline] My wish is to see a one second GCD made baseline for the class, and I would place this above all else I've discussed throughout my post. A one second GCD is basically mandatory for DPSing as a Death Knight, particularly with the rune model in Cataclysm; and perpetuated under the influence of Heroism or other buffs that provide an increase to our haste (eg Essence of the Red during Sinestra). With the manner and speed in which runes regenerate, it is simply not possible to use them efficiently with the standard GCD. It is for this reason that Frost Presence is simply not viable. A one second GCD is at least as mandatory for Death Knights, if not more so, than it is for any of the energy based classes. The one second GCD needs to be made baseline for the class, and then Frost Presence and Unholy Presence can be balanced so that there is actually a choice between them, either based on spec or player preference.
[Continued]

[Runic Corruption for Blood and Frost Death Knights] Procs are a method to instil RNG into a rotation, but I wish it were not a thing that our entire rotation is modeled around; it simply isn't rewarding having so much of your output based on dice than on doing it right. Between Freezing Fog and the varying uptime on the Rune of the Fallen Crusader proc, there is already a reasonable amount of RNG within Frost's rotation. With Runic Empowerment the proc rate on a given fight will vary from consistent to nonexistent, and it does not differentiate between a rune that will be available in two seconds or a rune that won't be available for seven. Furthermore, the two specs that deal with this mechanic are specs that are centralized around a two rune strike. This means that you need multiple procs to produce a Death Strike or an Obliterate, else (in a single target situation) there is often little to no gain from a single Runic Empowerment proc, while we are waiting on the other rune required to use our primary strike to complete recharging. Runic Corruption was an elegant replacement to that mechanic. It provided a more consistent DPS increase, and it meant not having to leave a rune unspent in an attempt to proc a favorable one (Blood holding onto a blood rune to proc a rune compatible with Death Strike, Frost holding onto an unholy rune during AoE). My wish is to see this ability made into an option for Blood and Frost Death Knights; perhaps moving it into the first tier of Unholy.

[Unholy] [Ghoul Receiving Crit] I wish for Unholy's pet to receive our crit rating. Given the amount of crit rating that Unholy Death Knights have at current, this is far from an unreasonable request.

Now that I've covered the meat and potatoes of what I'd like to see done, here are a few more minor things I wish to see changed in the future;

[Army of the Dead] My wish for this ability would be to have it be made into an instant cast spell. Between the actual damage output and the longer CD, I don't think it an out of line request. It would allow us to use it as a minor DPS increase when we wanted to, instead of being limited to utilizing it on selected encounters, or prior to pulling a boss and getting our tanks all flustered over requesting a proper "countdown" for it.

[Empowered Rune Weapon] Nothing extensive, but I'd wish for the CD on Empowered Rune Weapon to be reduced from five minutes, down to three; for DPS, tanking, or PVP, the ability just doesn't warrant that long of a CD for its potency

Raise Dead I'd love to see this ability made to be unique for each spec like it is for Unholy. Maybe Raise Dead would produce a Skeletal Archmage for Frost, and a Bone Warrior for Blood that temporarily assists in the Death Knight's defenses. I just thought that would be a fun idea to think about, albeit reserved for a later time.

[Blood] [Blood-Caked Blade] This ability provides no defensive utility to Blood Death Knight tanks, nor does it provide a substantial increase to their threat per second, and it is consequently rejected in a Blood tanking spec. I wish to see this talent either relocated or rolled into a more lackluster talent (eg Butchery), to be obtainable by Frost and Unholy Death Knights.

09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
What spells do you use the least?

[Blood Boil] Despite doing a fixed amount of damage to all targets (unlike Howling Blast and similar "AoE" abilities which have their damage reduced on additional targets), the damage of this ability is far too low to be used often. For Frost, it is never worth lending a rune to over Howling Blast, and Unholy requires several targets to be within range (and diseased) to warrant using.

[Pestilence] (See my previous feedback on this ability).

[Frost] [Hungering Cold] The current state of this ability doesn't suit a melee class; furthermore, it is far too penalizing to the Death Knight if interrupted, as we are locked out of all of our fundamental abilities in PVP (Chains of Ice, Mind Freeze, etc). With a cast time, it is a risk and awkward at best to try to use; even when attempting to manipulate it intelligently in PVP (juking), between the cast time and the shorter range, it is still possible to avoid while moving, through line of sight, or other means (Blink, etc). My suggestion would be to have it made into an instant cast, single target form of CC; "Your target is frozen in a block of ice. Over time, the ice will thaw, melting the target free after %t, or the ice will shatter if it has sustained significant damage". An alternative would be to have the glyph remove the cast time, but it would remain at a high runic power cost.
I'm not going to make a post as fancy as Rune's. But to touch on some of her points, many of them I have been thinking about for a long time now.


[Runic Corruption for Blood and Frost Death Knights] Procs are a method to instil RNG into a rotation, but I wish it were not a thing that our entire rotation is modeled around; it simply isn't rewarding having so much of your output based on dice than on doing it right. Between Freezing Fog and the varying uptime on the Rune of the Fallen Crusader proc, there is already a reasonable amount of RNG within Frost's rotation. With Runic Empowerment the proc rate on a given fight will vary from consistent to nonexistent, and it does not differentiate between a rune that will be available in two seconds or a rune that won't be available for seven. Furthermore, the two specs that deal with this mechanic are specs that are centralized around a two rune strike. This means that you need multiple procs to produce a Death Strike or an Obliterate, else (in a single target situation) there is often little to no gain from a single Runic Empowerment proc, while we are waiting on the other rune required to use our primary strike to complete recharging. Runic Corruption was an elegant replacement to that mechanic. It provided a more consistent DPS increase, and it meant not having to leave a rune unspent in an attempt to proc a favorable one (Blood holding onto a blood rune to proc a rune compatible with Death Strike, Frost holding onto an unholy rune during AoE). My wish is to see this ability made into an option for Blood and Frost Death Knights; perhaps moving it into the first tier of Unholy.


I'll start here. This is my biggest problem with Frost. Mainly that so much of your damage is put on a dice-roll, it makes the spec extremely boring and yet frustrating. I've actually debated rerolling over it in fact. Unholy lacks the AE utility required for most of the fights in Firelands. Chillblains is simply too cookie cutter of an ability to drop on heroic Beth'tilac adds as well as throwing snares all over the place on Rhyolith. The ranged AOE burst aspect from Howling Blast was required on heroic Ragnaros progression, depending on how you handled phase 2. <Method> was the only guild I saw choose to bring an unholy DK to the fight, to which they had their own very unique way of getting through phase 2.


[Army of the Dead] My wish for this ability would be to have it be made into an instant cast spell. Between the actual damage output and the longer CD, I don't think it an out of line request. It would allow us to use it as a minor DPS increase when we wanted to, instead of being limited to utilizing it on selected encounters, or prior to pulling a boss and getting our tanks all flustered over requesting a proper "countdown" for it.


Another very important thing I wanted to touch on. This is a 10 minute cooldown, used for two things currently. I've also debated ways in which this could be changed, but no matter what happens, the damage output of this ability is simply not where it should be. Demonology warlocks throwing out Doomguards doing over 1.25 Million damage just as a one button cooldown? I realize the channeling part of the ability must be left alone if you want to leave blood tanks with their extra cooldown, but it could also be fixed with a glyph perhaps. A glyph that eliminates the cast time, increases damage output, as well as disabling the ghouls ability to taunt. Just being realistic here, but if we were to get such a change, instantly summoning an army of taunts would just break the balance of the spell.


[Frost] [Hungering Cold] The current state of this ability doesn't suit a melee class; furthermore, it is far too penalizing to the Death Knight if interrupted, as we are locked out of all of our fundamental abilities in PVP (Chains of Ice, Mind Freeze, etc). With a cast time, it is a risk and awkward at best to try to use; even when attempting to manipulate it intelligently in PVP (juking), between the cast time and the shorter range, it is still possible to avoid while moving, through line of sight, or other means (Blink, etc). My suggestion would be to have it made into an instant cast, single target form of CC; "Your target is frozen in a block of ice. Over time, the ice will thaw, melting the target free after %t, or the ice will shatter if it has sustained significant damage". An alternative would be to have the glyph remove the cast time, but it would remain at a high runic power cost.


Nothing to say after this, other than agreed.

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