Heirlooms

General Discussion
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It never was about the name. Some people were disapointed/didn't understand the naming convention. It wasn't the driving force behind the feature though. If it was, they'd just rename it. They're adding it because it'd be a good addition to the game.

That's why i said it doesn't matter how it's labeled, it's the same item. "a rose by any other name is just as sweet" and all that jazz.


IMO, it is all about the name. The name is the parameters, which dictates what the item can and cannot do. Without an appropriate naming convention, the parameters under which the item can operate would not be clearly seen.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be looking forward to when this feature is finally, finally implemented, and I want it to happen before the end of the world. I just want it to be so because it would be a nice convenient feature, not because of some alleged advertisement contained within the tag of the items that doesn't actually exist.


It never was about the name. Some people were disapointed/didn't understand the naming convention. It wasn't the driving force behind the feature though. If it was, they'd just rename it. They're adding it because it'd be a good addition to the game.

That's why i said it doesn't matter how it's labeled, it's the same item. "a rose by any other name is just as sweet" and all that jazz.
See, I understand that, but it still makes me feel like ripping my monitor in half in a rage when I see someone bring up the Binding tag as a justification for this change, say that the tag is lying about how the items function, or insist that Bind in Realm/Server would be a more correct name for the items.

Thankfully, I have not actually done so. Yet.

"Someone is wrong. On the internet. Duty calls."
"Someone is wrong. On the internet. Duty calls."


http://xkcd.com/386/ ?


:D
10/05/2011 03:29 PMPosted by Tyrazsun
"Someone is wrong. On the internet. Duty calls."


http://xkcd.com/386/ ?


:D
/brofist
10/05/2011 11:41 AMPosted by Zarhym
I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"

What you're describing are two incredibly different mechanics which require very different technical solutions. Yes, we can mail you an item to every existing character on your Battle.net account. But purchasing a BoA item doesn't result in the item being mailed to your character; nor should it, as we're not going to mail every character a BoA item you've purchased on one character. The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.

Why not make it so when you purchase an item, you aren't buying the item right then and there, but you are "unlocking" it for the account.

You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail. What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.

Can you see the difference between us mailing every single character on your account on every single realm an item, versus allowing you to mail a single item to any character on your account on any realm? It's a very big one as far as programming is concerned.


As technical as it sounds and I hate to sound selfish but could you hurry up on it? Talking about it for years really diminishes the credibility that it is being worked on and I definitely would like to expand on making new alts and utilizing more heirloom gear. I just don't want to spend another 25 dollars in order to bring some more heirlooms over to other servers.
10/05/2011 01:06 PMPosted by Zarhym
I just don't see why you guys don't like the idea of mailing them to each toon. Sure, it's messy, but i don't see how it's better than nothing, unless you want more people transfering toons. If it means i can have BoAs, i can live with deleting an extra 5 mails on a new toon.. I already get spammed by 3-4 pets anyway.

Look, we know people want to be able to send the BoAs they've earned to any character on their account. We want the same. But we have no intention of fundamentally changing the reward system just to work around the limitations of the current mail setup. The way a BoA item is obtained on a per-character basis shouldn't be trivialized just for a "quick fix." Not to mention that, even changing the BoA reward system to unlock for all of your characters an item you've purchased on one of them, would still be much more than an insignificant development undertaking.

This is how it needs to work (which is no different than the current functionality, with the exception of the cross-realm feature):

    1) You earn the required currency to purchase a BoA on a character.
    2) You then have the ability to send that BoA to any character on your account with no realm or faction restriction.

In order to do that, some level of integration of in-game mail needs to be made so the system is cross-realm. Such a system doesn't exist. The WoW in-game mail system was designed from the start to be a realm-specific thing and has no "communication" across realms. That's what we need to change via some complicated programming -- like I said before, we don't want a symptom of implementing this feature to be that in-game mail is no longer realm-specific. Rather, we need a way for you to send yourself an item from one realm to another, but make that an exception to all existing rules/limitations of the current mail setup.


I was actually thinking about an idea for a mail addon this morning which requires adding another tab to the mail gui. My addon idea would require players to log on to each character to build a list of characters. If Blizzard did something like this it would automatically add characters on all realms. I'm assuming bnet id is tied to in game mail system since pets can be sent to all your characters. I dunno why you wouldn't be able to mail yourself?

You guys really sound like a lot of us that were against cross realm bg and dungeons. Sure there were consequences that came with that decision to implement that. We had an increase in ninjas and other unsavory characters that suffer little consequences since they can don't have to depend on their realm to be bm to people for their benefit and/or to grief. We had a break down in realm community also which is further exasperate by the RealID cross realm dungeon grouping system implemented not long ago. I find it funny now Blizzard suddenly cares about realms now after making choices that have degraded it for awhile. Just my 2 cents.
I'm not sure if it's been suggested or not, but I have an idea, and hopefully I can convey it properly.

The tabs when you hit "C" where your stats and saved armor sets are would be the perfect place.

Basically it would have all possible heirlooms, and it's a shared storage area for your account for heirlooms only. Each heirloom not in use will be lit up to show it being accessible, and will have a number showing how many are available (aka how many you've purchased). When any heirloom is unavailable, either in use or unpurchased, it is grayed out to show inaccessibility. To equip the heirloom you simply right click it to put it in your bag, and then equip it as usual. Drag it or right click it to replace it again from your bag to the storage.

I have no clue how it would be done, or the difficulty of it, but it would be tremendous.
I apparently came to this conversation a bit later than I would have liked, but perhaps combining a system of unlocking the item for an account and a new Bind type, Bind on server, or adding a unique-server tag(and the programming that goes with it) might be a way to go? It would prevent the messiness you are attempting to avoid, while cleaning up the current mess a bit. IMO there is no good reason to need more than 1 copy of a BoA item on a server anyway. Obviously a slight tweak might be needed for people to use duplicate trinkets.

I have NO programming experience, so I have no idea as to the viability of this suggestion.
Didn't you/someone else post this exact same suggestion a few months ago?

Oh wait no, the general idea seems to have become something of a recurring theme...

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1127125266">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1127125266</a>
<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1921989640">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1921989640</a>
<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2592856972">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2592856972</a>
<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2456909614">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2456909614</a>



Because necroing threads can get you a temp ban from the forums.

My "solution" would be to create a Battle.Net / Armory mailbox. (something like your out of game AH stuff you got going on).

You can mail vanity items and heirlooms from your toons to your battle.net account and redeem them on what ever toon you like. (same way you redeem mounts from recruit a friend)
On the subject of heirlooms,

It's time to get rid of Item Level 1. Especially on the cape and helm which are meant to be used up through level 85. On my warrior alt, I threw away a leather helm I should not be wearing, and suddenly, I could not queue for any Cata dungeons because apparently that leather helm was the only thing keeping me high enough. That infuriated me, especially since on my realm I couldn't even buy a green to replace it since the AH economy is so poor.

I understand that you need to keep twinks from getting Wrath or Cata enchants. But the ilvl calculator that you use to determine dungeon eligibility should recognize an heirloom slot as simple N/A and skip using that slot to calculate ilvl. That's a lot easier than going back to give every enchant a minimum player level (like the Zandalar shoulder enchants). At the same time, it doesn't penalize us or force players to carry inappropriate gear because that's not something most new players would even understand: why they could queue for a dungeon one day and suddenly not.

Thanks.
I like the guy with the "IF/ELSE" statement tree.

Open your mailbox in game.

Under recipient type in "Character Name@Realm".

Put Heirlooms in the mail.

Throw in some code that does an assortment of checks such as "Is the item BoA?" if yes, continue to "Are the sender and recipient of this mail on the same Battle.net account?" if yes then send mail.

They already have a system implemented to prevent you from sending BoA items to people not on your account. For example, I mistype a characters name while trying to send Heirlooms to my new Warrior. When I click 'send' I get an on screen message saying I can only send BoAs to characters on my own account.

What they need to code in, which likely is where the "technical limitation" comes in, is the ability to have the in game mail recognize "Fortbubbles@Stormrage" as a valid mail recipient. Something that seems so simple to us will probably take Battle.net and WoW's dev teams a while to work on.

I bet they are working on it right now.

My cup is overflowing.
Or you could just level a toon without BOA gear and stop !@#$%ing that everything in this game isn't 100% the way you'd like it to be. If you started leveling when this post was new you'd probably be at 85 by now...
10/05/2011 03:35 PMPosted by Fortbubbles
What they need to code in, which likely is where the "technical limitation" comes in, is the ability to have the in game mail recognize "Fortbubbles@Stormrage" as a valid mail recipient. Something that seems so simple to us will probably take Battle.net and WoW's dev teams a while to work on.


Actually if that's the case, it shouldn't involve the B.net team at all, as it's limited to WoW's corner of the system.

However, without knowing how tied into B.net the RDF is, there's no way to know that for sure.
As the RDF and RealID are the only two "cross server" functions currently in the game.
10/05/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Angryhank
Or you could just level a toon without BOA gear and stop !@#$%ing that everything in this game isn't 100% the way you'd like it to be. If you started leveling when this post was new you'd probably be at 85 by now...



I've already done it 5+ times. I don't really want to do it again the long way.
On the subject of heirlooms,

It's time to get rid of Item Level 1. Especially on the cape and helm which are meant to be used up through level 85. On my warrior alt, I threw away a leather helm I should not be wearing, and suddenly, I could not queue for any Cata dungeons because apparently that leather helm was the only thing keeping me high enough. That infuriated me, especially since on my realm I couldn't even buy a green to replace it since the AH economy is so poor.

I understand that you need to keep twinks from getting Wrath or Cata enchants. But the ilvl calculator that you use to determine dungeon eligibility should recognize an heirloom slot as simple N/A and skip using that slot to calculate ilvl. That's a lot easier than going back to give every enchant a minimum player level (like the Zandalar shoulder enchants). At the same time, it doesn't penalize us or force players to carry inappropriate gear because that's not something most new players would even understand: why they could queue for a dungeon one day and suddenly not.

Thanks.


Carry around an appropriate iLv Helm, Chest, Cape, Shoulders, Trinket, weapon etc in your inventory.

The iLv calculator is based on the best gear you have that is appropriate for your character, not just on what is currently equipped.

So if your Warrior is lv80 and you want to run Wrath Heroics until 81, all you need is to grab some Cata leveled plate gear for the slots you have heirlooms equipped in off the AH, soulbind them(this part is speculation on my part), and then queue for heroics as you will have more than the 2XX iLv required.
Meh. The origanal idea in this post is the easiest solution to everything. Have the hierloom vendor the same way it is now with one change. After you work to get the JP to get your hierloom item, it shouldnt cost anything to get that item again. And then just apply that to any character on the account and bam. I can earn my hierlooms on one server, create a character on another, walk to that vendor and recieve my hierlooms.

Seems easier to control abuse or whatever the concern is with cross realm mailing.
10/05/2011 11:50 AMPosted by Kevyne
The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.


Those games aren't based off of out-dated engines, with a ageing infrastructure.

Other online games right now can do this because their engine and background systems were designed to be able to do this. When WoW was created, it was designed to be ran on one single game. Each "Realm" was an individual game, they weren't ever meant to communicate on the level of passing items through seerver/server. Hence why you couldn't trade someone cross-server, the systems weren't designed for that.

Now, when battle.net was designed, the coders (Most of the original game programmers aren't even working on wow anymore, so their trainees are coding now) had to go through and re-write and add entire scripts without breaking the engine as a whole. This is not something that you can simply say "Throw some money at it and do it." It's a process that requires time and skill to complete, if not a lot of trial and error. Because of this, Blizzard chose not to try and do features they wouldn't need currently, because, lets face it, the mailing system in WoW is the backbone of...almost everything when you think about it.
You want to use the AH? It gets mailed to you, complete a quest? Quest givers can mail stuff to you. Get an item but you can't hold anymore? It gets mailed to you. Go over a currency cap? They mail them to you. Lose an item? Blizzard mails you the item.

Now simply telling the game to mail you an item when you first log in, say, a corehound pup, is one thing, because it's a simple broadcast.

AKA

bnet asks realm, is this first login && 0.0.0.000 days played? if so it mails you it. (Now when you first get the item it just flat out broadcasts it to all of the characters on your account.)

Now, with BoA's, you have to get the sever to send the data to bnet, with this data telling them what the item is, where it's going, what realm is it on, is the character ally or horde. Then after that, it has to locate the server, find the realm, find the faction, find the character, then recall what item it was supposed to mail, then it's got to remove the item from one character on your bnet account to another. Not to mention it has to verify that the character itself is one linked on your bnet.

So it'd be like this.

mail BoA Sword from Jackdaws - Illidan to Valdosa - Akama.

Step one, does the item exist on Jackdaws - Illidan?
Step two, does the destination character exist?
Step three, is the destination character linked to Jackdaws - Illidan?
Step four, find server.
Step five, find character.
Step six,Flag bnet transfer.
Step seven, Confirm bnet Transfer.
Step eight, Delete item from host (Jackdaws - Illidan)
Step nine, Mailing Complete.

It's a lot harder then you'd think. Now, just think of how much code that is...ARGH!!!!

~Val
They can try to fluff it all they want, but at the end of the day its about money. They want you to pay for everything you do in this game.


I dont buy any of the techno mumbo jumbo they generally toss us common folk.

Its all about the benjamins.

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