1.35% of all wow players completed normal FL

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After it got nerfed. Personally i never had the chance to get even close simply because my previous guild xferred to horde and i just pvp casually now.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2497-Statistics-Firelands-Changes-Impact-Pumpkin-
Carving-Contest-Fan-Art


Looks like that moron was successful at starting qq. Players and accounts are 2 different things.

In they counted my 8 85's of which 2 raid?
Then they counted 9 of my guildmates with between 7 & 10 85 alts who raid on one or 2 toons?

Just a estimate
~ 75 - 80 characters between 10 of us.
~ 12 - 15 characters that raid between 10 of us.

So even though it shows 12 out of 80 characters(15%) raiding. 10 of 10 people(100%) have completed at least 7/7 normal.



15% would be a much higher number then what is being shown in your worst case scenario. For your theory to have any merit it would require people with 2 full accounts on a server with 20 85s and having one of them raid.
10/13/2011 11:46 AMPosted by Mnevis
Now we can go back and forth all day about it...but the simple fact is people with no experience have a huge mountain of effort to take to get in a pug raid. Nobody wants the burden of taking in those who can't hit the ground running. It was a problem in WOTLK too. People's expectations are too high and as such, many people have literally given up.

We shall see how the raidfinder tier is tuned. The danger I think is making it too easy, because yes it'll be accessible, but if the damage is tuned so mechanics can be ignored (and that's really what you're talking about when you say over-tuned... that you have to do it right or you wipe) then people will go, they'll have fun, but no one will learn to raid. I really hope that they get it right and it's easy enough to be relatively stress and wipe-free, but hard enough to teach people not to stand in the bad.

Raid guilds won't touch you unless you're geared and ready to hit their content ground running. Nobody wants to carry anybody and as such, raiding is quickly becoming an elitist-only club.

I can't speak at all for the Firelord crowd, but the group I raid with had a while in T11 where we usually had to pug one or two people from trade. We'd do an inspection to see that they looked reasonably aware of how to set up their character, but more than a few times we had people with us for heroic maloriak or chimeron or magmaw kills that had not beaten nefarian. I haven't been guildless this expansion, so I obviously don't have the experience of some of you, but I can tell you that my group's hunter just started playing in Cata and was someone we pugged from trade chat.


Bull, I did not say mechanics should be ignored. You're putting words in my mouth.

Over-tuned means exactly what I said. It means that the punishment for failing to meet a mechanic is too punishing for what constitutes a NORMAL mode raid. Save that "be perfect or die" crap for hard modes where they belong. T11 fights had it. Firelands has it. And I'll lay money down that says Dragon Soul will have it too.

I also am willing to bet that Dragon Soul raids will be a total wipefest for the first month easy into the tier. It won't be until valor gear and t13 normal gear starts flowing into the crowds where those raids will have a chance at success (Unless they're making the fights 10 man HP/damage but allowing 25 to do it). The poor gear quality mixed in with the total crapshoot that comes from the LFG stuff will ensure that.

As for the rest, try it. Get yourself an 85 toon on a different server and try and join any pug and make sure you mention it's your first time in there. See how many people will touch you. Or take my (and several others) anecdotal evidence at face value. I'm not saying the content isn't doable or it's impossible to break into the raid scene being a new player (or returning vet)...what I am saying is it's damn hard to get in with the barrier to entry being set as high as it is (and it's a bar set higher still by the players). It's a bar that many are either too intimidated to tackle or are just plain fed up trying.

The real question worth asking is...is Blizzard happy with such a small % of the playerbase getting to see AND tackle the content? Seems to me it's a waste of resources to develop these raids if a grand X% get to tackle it.
fl is awful anyway
The stats just aren't that useful. If you showed me some stats on account achievements I'd be interested. I have no doubt that WoWs raiding population is fairly small, but just how small is the question I'm interested in.



I only offend offenders.


You volunteered your insults unprovoked in this case, and I doubt that's an anomaly. Being Casual and completing Firelands are completely separate things, just like being a douchebag and being anything else are completely separate things. Going on about how elitist raiders are big bad meanies just sounds like a defense mechanism to me. Would you like a hug?


LOL, interpret my comment anyway you want. The last thing I need is a hug.

Like I said, I only offend the offenders.

Did you take offense?

It wasn't an insult, it was an opinion. If you don't like my opinion, put me on ignore.
The only way these stats would be relevant at all is if each player only had one character...yeah.
10/13/2011 12:37 PMPosted by Ryoko
The only way these stats would be relevant at all is if each player only had one character...yeah.


Even if everyone had 10 characters and 1 raiding, the numbers would be higher. You havent thought your argument through
Even if everyone had 10 characters and 1 raiding, the numbers would be higher. You havent thought your argument through


You're just making assumptions. My point is that the data is skewed either way given our ability to have multiple characters.

Also you can be an active raider without defeating the final boss, it used to take even hardcore guilds many weeks to even get to the final boss let alone defeat it.
10/13/2011 12:44 PMPosted by Ryoko
Even if everyone had 10 characters and 1 raiding, the numbers would be higher. You havent thought your argument through


You're just making assumptions. My point is that the data is skewed either way given our ability to have multiple characters.

Also you can be an active raider without defeating the final boss, it used to take even hardcore guilds many weeks to even get to the final boss let alone defeat it.


2%. This is the equivalent to having 50 85s and raiding on one of them.
10/13/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Tinjai
Except for the fact that it has only been like that for the past 2 or 3 weeks.


FL 7/7 was puggable on other servers long before the nerfs hit live. Just because player skill on some servers is lacking, like it is on Scarlet Crusade and other low progression servers, doesn't mean that the content is not puggable without nerfs as a whole.
And?

For this to mean something it would have to show that 100% of players are actually trying.

Fact of the matter is that most players don't raid. I've met a lot of stellar players that don't raid.

Heck, I'm better than most raiders and I don't raid. People just don't raid for a lot of reasons. If blizz wants people to raid they have to make it so people have the desire to go through all the crap that a raid takes to happen. Even then there is that Time commitment standing in the way.
And?

For this to mean something it would have to show that 100% of players are actually trying.

Fact of the matter is that most players don't raid. I've met a lot of stellar players that don't raid.

Heck, I'm better than most raiders and I don't raid. People just don't raid for a lot of reasons. If blizz wants people to raid they have to make it so people have the desire to go through all the crap that a raid takes to happen. Even then there is that Time commitment standing in the way.

2%.

If only 10% were "trying" which is bs that would mean that only 20% of those that are "trying" are raiding
Bull, I did not say mechanics should be ignored. You're putting words in my mouth.

Over-tuned means exactly what I said. It means that the punishment for failing to meet a mechanic is too punishing for what constitutes a NORMAL mode raid. Save that "be perfect or die" crap for hard modes where they belong. T11 fights had it. Firelands has it. And I'll lay money down that says Dragon Soul will have it too.


Jeez no need to be so hostile. Here's an example. When T11 was current, you couldn't tunnelvision during Theralion and fail to notice the arrow over your head saying you were about to get meteored. You'd almost certainly die if you didn't stack on someone, so you had to split your focus between looking out for the meteor, dps/healing, moving out of shadow, not standing near anyone with engulfing, and being aware of when Valiona was gonna swoop down. That's all kinda hard, and missing a meteor meant death.

What I'm getting at is if they tune easy mode Demon Soul roughly like T11 is now, meteors are so non-lethal that ignoring them is the ideal strat. No one's going to learn to monitor their debuffs if the penalty for ignoring it is insignificant. There may have been a middle ground for T11, but heroics didn't even demand perfection. A tick of Arcane Storm going off in normal was fairly, on Heroic it was serious but not necessarily a wipe. Missing an interrupt on normal Omnomnitron didn't 1shot anyone.

If our goal and Blizzard's goal here is to get more people into, or back into raiding, I'd like to know that someone with full-clear raidfinder experience can watch out for something. It's often quite important.
I don't trust these numbers, but I do believe that only a small disproportional number of characters raid.

Why make raids at all if only 5-10% of WoW gets to play them?
2%.

If only 10% were "trying" which is bs that would mean that only 20% of those that are "trying" are raiding
You may have misunderstood me.

My point was that 2% is a horrible amount of players considering how much work Blizz puts into raids.

That would be bad on it's own if 100% of players were even raiding. What is worse is the fact that not only has 2% of the populace has killed Rag, but that most players don't even want to try because they do not find raids enjoyable or worth the effort.

To add to that, the few that actually want to raid, most get turned away for various reasons like like of an achieve. It's pretty much a broken system at this point. i don't see how Blizz justifys pouring resources into something that rarely gets used. And the fact that raids are the equivalent of "Beating the game" (temporarily) it's kinda sad that so few get that far.

It's like making a movie and having everyone only stay for 80% of it and not even being interested in seeing the grande finally.
My guild finally downed Rag recently. We could only get Shan and Beth down before nerfs. Shannox was a joke even before the nerfs, but Beth'tilac was smacking us around like we were paying her to do it.

Post nerfs we one shot damn near everything but Rag.. I can't imagine someone in a halfway decent group not getting at least that far.
10/13/2011 01:02 PMPosted by Leucen
I can't imagine someone in a halfway decent group not getting at least that far.


Not that you're not correct, but watch it, your 'hardcore elitist douchebag' is showing a little.
I've killed Rag on this character. I have nine other level 85s that I don't raid with. I'm skewing the numbers. Rawr!
I don't trust these numbers, but I do believe that only a small disproportional number of characters raid.

Why make raids at all if only 5-10% of WoW gets to play them?


There's no endgame content everyone participates in. Endgame is, by definition, a niche game.

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