Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

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10/27/2011 09:41 AMPosted by Nethaera
Let's come to an agreement together, Ok? We'll keep working to make things better, you keep providing constructive feedback on what we could do to make it better. We'll then try to figure out how we can meet in the middle on some of those things as often as possible. Deal?

Go ahead and pull up my 12 threads (from Suggestions Forums) from years ago, and let's discuss those, one by one.

I have a feeling you will not; and that's the problem.

People have been providing suggestions, and they simply get ignored. Not to mention, your threads get owned by a bunch of trolls.

Whatever happened to the Suggestions Forum? It's gone now. I wonder why. I also wonder what happened to all the suggestions that were there.

---

You think people like spending their time writing/typing stuff about YOUR game? No.

So, for those that put in the time and effort to write constructive suggestions, you could at least RESPOND to it. Instead of ignoring every thread out there, thus making the Poster feel ignored like a dog.
Been playing since day one, and don't consider myself a hard core player. I have quite a few alts, but have never participated much in the end-game raids although I've done a LOT of heroic dungeons in my day. For me, Cata was the first time since I started playing that I felt like my kind was no longer wanted in the game. Doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me, it's just the way I felt. The game definitely took a sharp turn towards catering to the hard core players. In my family we had 4 accounts, within 2 months we had canceled all of them. A definite first for us. Almost 9 months later, we are back to 3 (the 4th is forever gone as my wife truly hated cata with a vengeance). but all of our playing time is perhaps 5% of what is used to be. I mainly log in for the events and then log off again. We'll see if I feel different after 4.3 comes out, but I'm not real hopeful.

In the end though perhaps I should thank Bliz. My kids are off the computer and playing outside with friends daily now instead of playing with them within WoW. and the wife and I have found other things to fill out time.

wait what, Vash'jir! I loved Vash, i wish more of the realms were like it to be honest, was my favorite new area. I go back there to relax every now and again.
Every expansion sucks until the next expansion comes out, then the previous expansion "wasn't so bad" or "Wow, things were so awesome back during that expansion, I wish we could go back."

Don't worry, within 12-18 months we'll be seeing "Man, I remember when Cata was so awesome."
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.


That's a side effect of running a dungeon multiple times for badge gear. I actually enjoyed the difficulty of heroics when they launched - they weren't quite like BC heroics but were definitely an improvement over WOTLK heroics.

I think Cataclysm' only failure was not foreseeing the influx of bads who thought they were allowed to afk/faceroll through heroics for valor points like a lot of people did in WOTLK heroics for whatever reason they might have. Cataclysm heroics were not "truly" hard as much as they were perfect training grounds for raiding - you were expected to CC, not break it, and interrupt spellcasts on most pulls - something the vast majority of the playerbase seems to think that they shouldn't have to do.
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.


You are mistaking the developers looking at the game with a critical eye with the claim that it was a "failure". We've seen a wide spectrum of opinions over Cataclysm and we're not afraid to look at what worked and didn't work (as we do with each expansion and game as a whole) and try to find better ways of doing things. I heard differing opinions overall during BlizzCon, but not once did I get the impression that any of those opinions boiled down to "Cataclysm sucks" as a whole. They had key elements that they disliked or thought could be improved on, but throwing the whole thing out the window as a "failure" is and should be considered a bit extreme don't you think?

As always, we want to keep learning and growing from each iteration of the game and that means that we're going to do that by continuing to look for your constructive feedback as well.


But that is wrong. Cata is a failure because of the objective.

The objective by Blizzard was to get more subscriptions, so they re-did all of the old zones. They even admitted they wanted to redo all of the low level zones to entice new players..

But subscriptions actually DROPPED.

Therefore it is black and white according to their objective.

CATA failed.
Say you are level 48 and want to go to Felwood. Say you want to go to the Northern part of Felwood and do those quests, skipping the Southern part because those are easy or level 45ish.

YOU CANT!

Because zones are now one big chain. Or I should say, one big TRAIN! This game is now on rails and it is a shame. Part of the fun was choosing which quest hub to go to at anytime I wanted. ESPECIALLY WHEN I GET EXPERIENCE FROM PVP, which now contradicts a linear level flow...
Every expansion sucks until the next expansion comes out, then the previous expansion "wasn't so bad" or "Wow, things were so awesome back during that expansion, I wish we could go back."

Don't worry, within 12-18 months we'll be seeing "Man, I remember when Cata was so awesome."

It will be hard to convince anyone Cata wasn't awesome when the game subs get down to 4M in MoP because people can't care less about playing Pokémon with their non-combat pets, Carebears with their Pandarens, or Tekken with their monk.

I, for one, just enjoy to play WoW. Call it nostalgia, but I feel that over time, the game is changing so much that it's becoming less fun than the game I used to enjoy much more than I do now.
Upgrading the old world wasn't something that should have come out as an expansion. Adding flight to basic Azeroth should have been done when it was introduced in BC. This basically shows a lack of support to the foundation of the game, leaving it very static as opposed to evolving over time to incorperate new systems or dynamics.

Phasing has pretty much neutered the social aspect for many, rendering people unable to group with folks in the same region (sure, you can be in the group, you just can't see or help one another). I'll paraphrase Ian from Jurrasic Park here.... Your developers were so excited that they COULD use phasing, they never stopped to consider if they SHOULD.

The linear aspect of the quest chains makes me feel like I'm playing a mid 90s rail shooter. You really can't deviate from the script unless you want to leave an entire zone in phased limbo mid story.

The "new" PvP areas are rather horrid. BfG is a rush job put in place because they couldn't figure out how to make a city battle work (after a little map retooling, I developed one that could work nicely in 25 minutes). TP is nothing but WsG on 'roids. Lol Barad is a giant circle jer....zerg (again, I reworked this one in about 20 minutes and got GREAT feedback from folks on the Battlegrounds forum, only to have my thread mysteriously deleted. /eyeroll )

Deathwing, the big bad threat of the expac, never seems to show up anywhere. I've seen him 4 times since launch. OOOOOOooooooooo scarey.....

WotLK felt like it was the size of Texas, full of new zones, vast and forboding. Cata felt like Rhode Island because all the effort got dumped into a few new areas and retooling the old world.

And last but not least, I was super excited to play a worgen gal after seeing the initial models and concept art. The female models looked sleek and powerful, a fine feminine counterpart to the male. The released model is a horrible joke and a terrible dissappointment. They look like chihuahuas instead of werewolves. The head shape is laughable, not to mention the "snarl" in anatomically impossible. Worst model in the game.

Cata a failure? Not really, after all it's sold millions of copies world wide.

Cata a dissappointment? Yeah, pretty much....

As for the future, I simply don't have any hopes, desires, or expectations for MoP. Perhaps if I don't get excited for it, I'll be pleasantly surprised......
Some pros/cons off the top of my head

Cata Pros
  • Daily questing is best yet

  • Org is far cooler

  • TB questing is an improvement over Wintergrasp

  • improved questing mechanics in general

  • Heroics more engaging

  • 1-60 questing has better stories/mechanics

  • more "fun" type of rewards

  • introduction of rbg's though not w/o its own shortcomings

  • underwater quest zone was different and really neat

  • egyptian themed zone was a great additon

  • goblins/worgen was a great addition - especially how you get to see worgen/forsaken conflict from both sides.

  • introduction of transformigation, void storage, LFR

  • new darkmoon faire!

  • hunter pet challenges are a cool idea


Cata Cons
  • No Ulduar or Karazan type raids for the "explorer" type of player

  • fewer heroics

  • 1-60 questing is trivially easy, even without leveling perks, BoA gear

  • longer delays for patches = longer periods of pvp frustration

  • no new large format bg

  • too many portals

  • horde/alliance server balance has gotten worse


So even though Cata had some cons, Cata was definitely a success in a lot of ways.






10/27/2011 09:45 AMPosted by Nethaera
They have and they do. Sometimes though, I think people need a little nudge now and then and some encouragement that we really are paying attention.


    Looking for Raid
    Transmogrification
    Void Storage
    Multiple Mists of Pandaria Character Progression Paths
    PvE Scenarios
    That one Firelands Daily where you can heal people for credit
    The new Talent System
    The talents themselves in the new Talent System
    The Dev Chat that's supposed to go on tonight


All of these things support the idea that Blizzard is paying attention. At least, to me it does.
10/27/2011 09:50 AMPosted by Insyde
we gets things like pet battles that NOBODY wanted?


Pay no attention to the level 5 forum alt troll behind the curtain.


Looking for Raid
Transmogrification
Void Storage
Multiple Mists of Pandaria Character Progression Paths
PvE Scenarios
That one Firelands Daily where you can heal people for credit
The new Talent System
The talents themselves in the new Talent System
The Dev Chat that's supposed to go on tonight


All of these things support the idea that Blizzard is paying attention. At least, to me it does.



/agree 100%.
10/27/2011 09:53 AMPosted by Spanner
The one thing Cata got most wrong was having a set in stone completion deadline. I don't know if it was the Activision muckety-mucks demanding it be out by Xmas for the phat loots or what, but it left much of the game rushed and poorly finished (worgen females, mounts, archaeology, Vashj'ir, etc, etc, etc) and much of it on the cutting room floor.


I definitely got that feeling as well. For all the examples you gave. Path of the titans being another, but Worgen females is the prime example of proof of a rushed job.

I haven't played much this expac due to r/l international move, but I've enjoyed what I have played. The revamp of the old world and questing is inspired. Phasing is awesome, the cutscenes are great. Even though talent system is getting a revamp, it's much better than before.

The fact is, these threads are boring in a sense. Either offer constructive feedback on what you would like to see different, or quit. Just whinging that its a 'failure' doesn't do anyone any good.

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