Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

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10/27/2011 10:32 AMPosted by Daniko
Blizz knows their mistake. They said heroics in Pandaria will be tuned for around the level of WOTLK heroics, ADMITTING THE MISTAKE that Cata has been TOO HARD.
Ugh. Do you have a link to where that was said exactly? I'd like to go /wrists and try to get my blood splattered on the screen just right.
There are very few failures in life. That's something you learn when you work a meaningful job. It's more fair to call Cataclysm a, "learning experience."

Hopefully they pick up some awesome information from this and create something cool for MoP.
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.



No. Cataclysm did not go far enough. Heroics and Zuls got dumbed down again from what they were in their 4.0 and 4.1 glory. I'm still waiting for an expansion like BC again where "Heroic" really lives up to its name. And stays there.


And no, the drop off in subscriptions is NOT a direct reflection of these so-called mistakes.

My wife doesn't have an active subscription anymore because she doesn't play as much and we don't have the money. That's not anything that's Blizzard's fault.
10/27/2011 10:34 AMPosted by Kryps
Why the hell can't people welcome it?

Because ultimately, it's pointless. The only people that would enjoy this is the "Mom", or "Husband/Wife" type of players, to waste their time on.


To waste their time on???? LOL

What in the heck do you think this whole game is? "Earth to deluded player, come in deluded player . . ."

If you want to do something with your time, go help people living in poverty.
10/26/2011 11:23 PMPosted by Sochumpy
A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.


The new questing in Cata is vastly superior to centralized hub based questing, where you pick up 20 quests and spend the next few hours just killing stuff and picking stuff up. There is actually a story line to the quests now, and you feel like your toon is actually accomplishing something.



10/26/2011 11:23 PMPosted by Sochumpy
A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.


To be fair they were both. Many, many players found both the original heroics and the Zandalari heroics challenging when gearing up. The downside to them is that after getting over the challenge part and peaking to the top of the mountain, they then started to feel like your potato peeling analogy.
If Cata were a failure, then the game would have went fully F2P and be in the process of slowly dieing, right now.

It was a partial failure, as they lost a lot of subs, many players were far less satisfied than in Wrath, and they've been edging closer and closer to what is not longer acceptable with the Blizzard store.

In typical Blizzard fashion, they will likely go too far in the other direction for Pandaria.

I'll say this, the Blizzard store is getting dangerously close to crossing a line that will destroy the credibility of this game.
What I loved about cataclysm
1. Questlines felt like I was part of a story rather than just some random warlock wandering around. I love feeling like I am making a difference to the world around me as I quest (ashenvale and hyjaal being great examples).
2. The aesthetics and some of the new graphical polish.
3. Tier 11 was alot of fun as was heroic rag.
4. Liked seeing Malfurion and a little bit of jaina.
5. Love new azeroth and how it looks, I hope it will evolve xpac to xpac (wtb repaired stormwind)


What I hated about Cataclysm
1. Tiers having too few bosses (T12/13) this leads to not having enough to do and repeating the same fight over and over.
2. Nerfing hardmodes half way through a content patch...things being too easy means we get bored faster.
3. Talent trees are just as cookie cutter as ever.
4. Balance pve wise has been particularly poor (PVP too as I have heard but I dont bother with that anymore). One/two button wonder specs have always been an aberration but BM/BC destro/cata arcane never should have existed.
5.Daily quests are just a grind, fine shiny new mount etc I get....
6. Trend of new races having op racials....cata comes out all dps (pretty much) become worgen to minmax...mists comes out all classes become panda's to min max...I get it, brilliant cash grab for all the hardcore raiders who will take any edge at all you are getting a nice cash infusion.
7. Hate thrall jesus and all the other mary sue characters (rhonin, paladin shaman priest mage half orc...whatever that guys name is)

This, exactly this. The heroics were not hard, they simply required actual skill to do them! I am not hardcore by any means, but the people that claim that these heroics were hard were either just lazy , or truly bad. I liked the heroics as they were.


The heroics as launched were awful. They were full of 1-shot mechanics (many of which removed by Blizz) for toons in 333 ilvl gear. They were also waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long (and continue to be). This is after GC said to the people requesting longer instances during wrath that they had come to learn people didn't want to do huge dungeon crawls. And then they made the heroics . . . huge dungeon crawls.

The best heroics (IMO), were the ICC 5 mans. Beautiful artwork, fantastic setting, intelligently designed trash pulls, bosses that felt like raid bosses but without the 1-shot mechanics. And they felt "big" without being long.
10/27/2011 09:45 AMPosted by Nethaera
They have and they do. Sometimes though, I think people need a little nudge now and then and some encouragement that we really are paying attention.

That's the best way to put it. If the players don't feel like you're listening, they'll find it easier to turn on you.

Personally, I have to say that overall, I did not enjoy Cataclysm. While the 1-60 experience felt great (I actually leveled Zoelle here entirely in Cata, enjoying my experience all the way through until I hit Outland because, well, that content is definitely old at this point in time - the only reason she isn't 85 yet is because I've nobody to play with on that server at this time), the rest of the game felt... lacking in some areas (I played those on my 85 horde paladin), especially at 85 where you would run out of content extremely fast, requiring only the dungeons to help you gear up for PvE.

In short, I feel that the PvE experience was given the same treatment as the PvP experience. All instanced, little world interaction. If you do not have a gathering or a self-gathering profession, you have no reason to step out into the world. In Wrath, if you wanted to help your reputation grinds go faster, you had a bunch of dailies you could do for every faction. In Cata, however, many factions were not represented with dailies meaning that the only way to get your reputation up with them were to grind the dungeons which, while interesting the first few times, eventually became tedious and boring.

I can say I did not enjoy my time with Cataclysm and yet still look forward to Mists of Pandaria as it seems that Blizzard wants to take the game in a direction I feel is enjoyable to me.
Keep in mind (for those who want specific answers to every point of feedback) that sometimes the answer is, "not right now" or even, "no" (though we try to avoid absolutes since we reserve the right to change our minds at any point in time.) Sometimes we can't answer at all, nor can we always give a definitive answer or reason (though we try where we can.) Also, providing feedback does not guarantee that the feedback will be acted on. It's an impossibility to do so with all the feedback we receive and it's illogical to think we could.

I think it can be said without reserve that even if we can't act on specific feedback or choose not to doesn't mean we don't care. This is a fallacy that gets perpetuated wrongfully.The most important point of insight I can give is that the development team is always looking for ways to make the game and player experience better at every opportunity for the overall health of the game. I couldn't possibly stress that point more.

You have every right to your opinions (we value them), just remember not to take it too far and infer that lack of action on our part = lack of care.

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