Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

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Subs went up in Wrath. Wrath was a financial success and of interest to players.

Subs went down in Cata. Still a financial success, but not as much as Wrath.

You can read a lot into that, but thats the gist of it. Wow is still a financial success overall, it just that Cata was less of a success.

If Cata failed, the game would be down to 3-4 mill subs.
Well, we'll know for certain a couple of weeks when the Q3 numbers come out.
I consider wrath the first failed expansion. That's just for me personally, I know a lot of people enjoyed wrath. I cancelled my sub in wrath and came back for cata.

Personally, I enjoy Cata. It can get boring but there are boring parts to every expansion.

Was Cata a failure? It depends on who you ask, really. It's a pretty broad question. If you want a broad answer, I'd say since the game is still going it wasn't a failure. Just how it didn't fail with wrath or bc.
Again, it really comes down to your definitions of 'success' and 'failure'.
I completly stopped playing back in April, while the game may be the best it has ever been it simply wasn't fun anymore. I was always one if not the best most hardcore player in my casual little guild.

We had a blast in Vanila, TBC and WotLK, we cleared content and had no problem getting to end of normals and doing some hardmodes while each tier was still relevant. I was able to carry the few terrible friends that I had through 1/6 SWP and cleared every boss of every Teir of WotLK while it was still relevant.

Well here comes cata, it is suddenly impossible to carry my friends through even the first boss, let alone a teir. They quit, not fun being roflstomped by the first boss over and over. I try to raid with some other randoms, not fun at all so I stop playing.

Cata, for me has been the absolute worst expac, evern while I can admit from a game design standpoint it is better than it has ever been, it just isnt fun.
In the end Cata will be judged by its final content patch so if Blizz pulls off something good at the end then no it won't have failed.

I will say that 4.1 was probably the worst content patch ever seen though.
10/26/2011 11:24 PMPosted by Bullcosby
Have you forgotten WOTLK?

Subscriptions were at an all time high in Wrath...
I enjoyed Vanilla, TBC, WotLK and Cata. Depending on where life was at, I was levelling, doing normals, heroics, pugging and doing guild runs. Got bored for certain periods, but how can a game be perfect for every week of every year.

Looking forward to the next expansion. After all, I have spent over 10 times more on WoW than I have for any other game and will probably keep spending.

I think all the expansions have been successful and i'm sure MoP will be too.
I don't think Cataclysm has been terrible, or anything. The longest I've un-subbed during it was about 4 months, which is much longer than the breaks I took during Wrath and BC, but I still came back. It's just hard to find another MMO that's as fun to play.

That said, I don't find it as fun as I used to, and I really don't think it's due to the oft bandied argument of, "everything gets boring with time." Repeating content is my bread and butter. I like doing an initial run of discovery and mistakes, and then repeated attempts later on with the benefit of the knowledge I gained.

That doesn't really happen anymore, though. Leveling is just so mindless. Making alts and questing across the world used to be my favorite aspect of the game. With each new character and new class, I'd try a different path through the world and refine my quest-path efficiency-- maybe I'd even find a handful of quests I'd never done before.

Now, I do the three quests that are available to me at any given time in any given zone, complete them, and move on to the next three. They're all in close proximity, by default, and the drops all come rapidly. There's no room for error or consideration on my part as a player. To cap it all off, I out level the zone (even without heirlooms) long before reaching the ends of the quest chains. What would have been the most difficult quests (ones that might require help from *gasp* strangers!) are now the most mind numbingly easy-- so easy that you might neglect completing them in favor of moving on to the next zone to do more level-appropriate content.

Though it doesn't fit the old definition of a "grind," doing the same thing over and over and over again, the lack of mental investment required still makes it feel like one. A lot of the 1-60 quests are very flashy and even have interesting story hooks, but they still struggle to wake me from the daze that the majority of the quests push me in to. At least when I was collecting 20 of the proverbial "bear asses" back in BC/vanilla, there was some chance that I'd be overwhelmed by the bears.

This distaste for repeatedly walking the same questing paths repeatedly has pushed me in to the dungeon finder for a lot of my experience gains, which has shaken my faith a bit. The impersonal nature of the system aside-- people don't seem to enjoy dungeons for the same reasons I do.

Scholomance, Dire Maul and Blackrock Depths are a few examples of what I love about dungeons. I love exploring them, learning the proper route to the end, and finding all the cool optional nooks and crannies. I love that you have to disable all of those crystals, then kill the demon before getting to the Prince in DM. I love that there's a hidden switch in Scholomance that opens an alcove containing a loot chest. I love the various ways you can interact with the NPCs in BRD's Grim Guzzler, or the various devices and switches that need to be activated to progress-- not to mention the insane number of bosses.

Entering them fresh, you feel like an explorer. Entering them the hundredth time, you feel like a weathered adventurer who knows their way around a dungeon. Those aren't sensations I get from the "loot corridor" dungeons of today. All of the burden of complexity in Wrath and Cataclysm dungeons is shifted in to boss mechanics, which will always be overpowered by gear at some point. That means that the bosses will offer frustration in the early months, and apathy in the later months, and everything in between them is a blur.

Linear phased quests and dungeons (aided by rapid leveling) sap the exploration and sense of learning from the leveling and gearing processes. These are things that I hope MoP addresses.
10/26/2011 11:30 PMPosted by Rìchy
Have you forgotten WOTLK?

You mean the expansion that made the entirety of the game accessible to a large majority of players?

Yeah... that was a failure. This Cata model of, "You are not welcome here," is so much better.

Cata is just as accessible. Gear has never been easier to get and the raids are puggable.
I think Cata questing is it's greatest achievement. I had infinitely more fun with quests this xcpac than at any other point in wow history. I don't really get the mentality of "we want unrelated quest hubs back". To each his own, but I think questing rocked. 7 boss raid tiers where everything's on fire are not my cup of tea though. Sick to death of FL.
10/27/2011 03:04 AMPosted by Sherbear

You mean the expansion that made the entirety of the game accessible to a large majority of players?

Yeah... that was a failure. This Cata model of, "You are not welcome here," is so much better.

Cata is just as accessible. Gear has never been easier to get and the raids are puggable.

It is now but it sure as hell wasn't back in December 7th 2010. Wrath had better entry level raids and epics from heroics.
10/26/2011 11:24 PMPosted by Bullcosby
Have you forgotten WOTLK?
Burning Crusade is just the height of this game, nothing else will even touch it

But Blizzard, do try
I'm leveling this guy without heirlooms. It isn't a complete face roll, and I occasionally die when I back into pats with other mobs.

I think the heirlooms have made leveling stupid-easy. Now, I leveled my first character in Vanilla, and the questing was much harder. Mostly due to the pointless travel involved. I like what we have now better.

It was a great expansion. Some things they tried and missed, others hit their intended target.

All in all I think it was a success, like every other expansions to date. I believe MoP is gonna be special tho, in a good way :)

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