MoP Talent Changes: Just Say No

General Discussion
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Like most players when I heard about the MoP expansion, I thought this is a joke right?

Well forget the all about the pandas....
The real joke is the new " improved " talent system. It is the worst idea to come out of ANY expansion EVER.

Here's what's wrong with new talent system:

Quote:

"Each class will have its own selection of talents, and the entire list will be available to all characters of that class regardless of specialization. "

1. Spec-ing is now redundant, due to open talent selection. Now we're going to have a bunch of Ret pallys with holy & or proc talents. Good job there Blizz.

Quote:
"In total, there will be six talent sets, with players unlocking a new set every 15 levels. This means that there will be fewer talents overall, but each talent you choose has the potential to have a much more dramatic effect on your gameplay."

2. Talent reduction: YET ANOTHER NERF. WHY? You guys already halved the number of talents available in Cata. I already have to pass over generally useful talents in favor of pure dps talents. Reducing the number of talents DOES NOT HELP.

Quote:
For each set of three talents players unlock, they will get to choose one talent to activate, for a total of six active talents at level 90.


3. Only 6 ACTIVE talents. What a completely brainless idea. A nerf on top of a nerf, with a side of nerf for dessert.

I get that you want to give players choices Blizz I really do; but this is not the way to go about it.

The only real choices players have for their toons is what role/class to play and the way
they want their toon to look.

Because good players are ALWAYS going to choose the talents that works best for their roles.

Fellow members of Azeroth, WAKE UP and smell the nerf.

PROTEST these ridiculous changes to your talent system!
I say Yes.
Fellow members of Azeroth, WAKE UP and smell the nerf.

PROTEST these ridiculous changes to your talent system!


Is it a nerf if it affects everyone in roughly equal amounts?
I very much agree with you.

Making an already casual friendly game even more casual friendly. This game gets neutered more and more each expansion, it's really starting become quite an effort just to log in these days.
I say "Read the description and look at the examples before you demonize what you don't understand, for @#$%s sake".

And how is it a "nerf" if you are precisely as effective at combat as you were before?

The only change here is that you can choose your own utility talents and not have to worry about being beaten by the guy who copy-pasted his spec from EJ.
What are you talking about? These new talent systems are perfect! There is no more "Boomking DPS" spec. It is all your choices!
It's actually AWESOME if you look at the details. It's actually the best design work Blizzard has put into WoW in a long time. (Please note. I'm no butt-kisser. I think that reforging is the worst design work that Blizzard has put into WoW, and before the announcement today I was planning on quitting WoW after the end of the expansion)

The talents are not cut and dry. Far from it actually. The talents in the same "tier" are designed in such a way to be equivalents/replacements to one another. Be it movement, CC, survival, healing or whatever. There might be some that are better in some situations than others, clearly. But this is far from always the case. There's more than enough wiggle room in the new system to actually bring personal choice into play.

And because by and large they're mostly about utility/survival, and not output, it frees up both choice AND makes balancing even easier.

I do think that some of the new talent trees are pretty ho-hum..Mage as an example I think is quite boring..but that can be fixed down the road. But the trees that are well developed? (Druid looks AWESOME as an example) It's great.

In short, it's actually replacing the old talent system with an evolution on what the whole "Path of the Titan's" progression was promising, that is, a choice between relatively balanced powerful abilities.
It it's not broke don't "fix" it. The 6 only active talents is what really K.O's this talent system. It's not an overhaul, it's an extremely bad move on Blizz's part.
10/21/2011 07:31 PMPosted by Iriador
It it's not broke don't "fix" it.
Blizzard tries to make it so talent choices are more interesting and diverse. But apparently to do that you have to remove talents points instead of adding more options. And instead of making people stick to your talent trees you will be able to switch them at ease like you can now with glyphs. How is that interesting and diverse again?

Also this isn't a nerf. This is dumbing the game down. I find it silly how Blizzard keeps trying to make the game easier and easier to play allowing a larger audience to lets say view Ragnaros in Firelands. The player base and its intelligence will remain the same. The players who aren't good at this game will still stand in the fire if they have talent trees, or if they don't have talent trees.
For what they wanted it was horribly broken.

The amount of happiness that it brought was tiny compared to the opportunity cost of a truly creative system.
I agree I think this is going to make more people have similar talents that the cookiecutter talents these days. Someone will always find one that is "Best" and other will follow. Now even tanks and healers can potentially have the same spec. I don't see how this will make everyone different.
10/21/2011 07:29 PMPosted by Broncko
What are you talking about? These new talent systems are perfect! There is no more "Boomking DPS" spec. It is all your choices!


The fact you think there won't still be cookie cutter specs is amazing.
I get the feeling a lot of people posting here have NOT looked at the tier specs on MMO-Champion. Stop right now, go look through them, then come back.

Your spec still matters. But now you can ALSO have abilities that were previously denied to you out-of-hand. This makes for the most customization possible.

PVP'ers (of which I am not one) should be the MOST enthusiastic for these changes. Just knowing someone's spec doesn't give you all the knowledge about what they can do anymore! Hopefully they'll find a way to keep add-ons from plumbing your talent choices also (although I won't count on it).
Like most players when I heard about the MoP expansion, I thought this is a joke right?

Well forget the all about the pandas....
The real joke is the new " improved " talent system. It is the worst idea to come out of ANY expansion EVER.

Here's what's wrong with new talent system:

Quote:

"Each class will have its own selection of talents, and the entire list will be available to all characters of that class regardless of specialization. "

1. Spec-ing is now redundant, due to open talent selection. Now we're going to have a bunch of Ret pallys with holy & or proc talents. Good job there Blizz.

Quote:
"In total, there will be six talent sets, with players unlocking a new set every 15 levels. This means that there will be fewer talents overall, but each talent you choose has the potential to have a much more dramatic effect on your gameplay."

2. Talent reduction: YET ANOTHER NERF. WHY? You guys already halved the number of talents available in Cata. I already have to pass over generally useful talents in favor of pure dps talents. Reducing the number of talents DOES NOT HELP.

Quote:
For each set of three talents players unlock, they will get to choose one talent to activate, for a total of six active talents at level 90.


3. Only 6 ACTIVE talents. What a completely brainless idea. A nerf on top of a nerf, with a side of nerf for dessert.

I get that you want to give players choices Blizz I really do; but this is not the way to go about it.

The only real choices players have for their toons is what role/class to play and the way
they want their toon to look.

Because good players are ALWAYS going to choose the talents that works best for their roles.

Fellow members of Azeroth, WAKE UP and smell the nerf.

PROTEST these ridiculous changes to your talent system!


And since most choices are not directly relevant to your role (for example, 2 out of 6 warlock tiers relate to our damage output), those same good players will no longer all be carbon copies of 1-3 different types of warlock, up to one for each spec. The fact that the choices no longer affect output does reduce their impact, true, but I think the choices at each fork (for the forks I've seen, at least) are different enough that Blizzard has a shot at balancing them without trivializing them. I think this system has terrific promise.
But I thought the talent system was broke? Everyone was !@#$%ing about how there's no customization, cookie cutter specs etc. People hated how you couldn't put points in another tree until your 31 point talent. Remember that?
I have looked at them... The whole idea of choosing a spec is to benefit from the abilities that spec brings, and the downfall of not having the others.
What are you talking about? These new talent systems are perfect! There is no more "Boomking DPS" spec. It is all your choices!


The fact you think there won't still be cookie cutter specs is amazing.


Yeah there will b, but it will be much harder to find them or you're sacrificing something else for it.

Take for example hunter tier one, your auto-shots either slow the target, generate more focus, or give a stacking debuff.

Which is the strongest dps wise? You might not know simply becuase you may need more focus during a fight or if you know you won't need the focus you can switch to the DoT. Or if you're needed to kite you can you can swithc to the first one.

10/21/2011 07:40 PMPosted by Whizzk
I have looked at them... The whole idea of choosing a spec is to benefit from the abilities that spec brings, and the downfall of not having the others.


Did you read it at all? We still choose our spec, when we choose it we are given base abilities and learn more base abilities for that spec as we level. Look at fury warriors, they get both SMF and TG at level 38 instead of having to wait til level 71 to get them; and they don't have to do a major respec just to switch weapons.
10/21/2011 07:31 PMPosted by Iriador
It it's not broke don't "fix" it. The 6 only active talents is what really K.O's this talent system. It's not an overhaul, it's an extremely bad move on Blizz's part.


"I have 41 talents now, and later I'll only get 6? I'll lose 35 talents! The new system sucks."

That's what I'm getting from these threads.

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