Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

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I agree burn theramore to the ground baby just don't spew bile from your mouth about oh it will cause the alliance to get upset, I've stated plenty of reason why the alliance should already be upset. Don't treat half your player base as idiots blizzard we know from how quests fill in cata that it was an expansion in favor of the horde from not only what the horde gain but also how the alliance quests end. There are plenty of alliance side quests that just end westfall on fire andorhal stonard southern barrens the list goes on. Don't force feed us lies stating oh but we promise the alliance will do something when you promised the same crap in cata. Btw sorry for any typos doing the fast on a iPad.
I have heard this story before Zarhym. I believe it was something that when the expansion is finished, alliance will have had its time in the spotlight. Please excuse me if I don't believe it this time. Fool me once and all that.

Lately, it seems the Alliance has been the personal punching bag for the devs.

When I read that theramore will be burned, I immediately thought "this can't be true, after the lumps we took in cata." When it was confirmed, I would like to say it felt like a punch in the gut.

But it didn't feel like that all. It felt expected. It felt like I should have known better, and that it was my fault for expecting something else.

I have no faith that the devs will do anything, after how they dropped the ball in cataclysm. I would point to examples, like the Gilneas conclusion from the alliance side. The plentiful "We successfully retreated!!! Here is your reward, go to X area..." quests.

We should expect better from Blizzard. They are capable of better, look at the Horde's quests and story; however, I don't think we will see any better. I am fairly confident of that.

I will stick around until I can find something better to do.
10/28/2011 01:22 PMPosted by Kryven
You have me all wrong if you think I'm qqing because we dont get the exact same wins as the horde I'm not, I'm complaining because the horde has been on the offensive this whole expansion and from lore stand point on the alliance they are doing nothing about it. I was horde till bc I love the horde, them taking things is great but so far on the alliance side from a lore stand point it's a weak faction they get their a** handed to them left and right in this expansion and don't respond to any of it. The fact that wogern get one tree in darn sucks compared to the goblins Teraforming an entire zone into a giant horde symbol. It would be nice to have some pride in the alliance but right now there isnt if you look at quests on our side.


The horde sort of had to be on the offensive it isn't like the Horde can afford to lose anymore territory when they were at a disadvantage to start with.. It is part of the problem with the inital balance in vanilla where Alliance just was too dominant. It isn't like the Alliance didn't go on the offensive in Cata they advanced in Swamp of Sorrows and invaded the Barrens. It is just there is more open conflict in the zones that were initial that were already in conflict. The story telling for the Alliance might also be an issue but from a balance perspective it isn't a big deal.

I don't envy Zarhym's job. People aren't buying what he's selling. Possibly because that's how they sold us the last expansion and failed to deliver.

"Oh wait, but this time!"

I know I did talk about this subject when Cataclysm was the fresh, hot topic. I don't remember what my exact words were, though, and would love to read them again after seeing several people bring them up in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I never made any specific point that an equal amount of story and retribution would be dedicated to the Alliance in Cataclysm, because I was well aware of how most of the story would play out. The Horde made many more grabs for power and dominance when Thrall left. Then Thrall became the protagonist with the evolving story of each patch focusing on the efforts to defeat Deathwing.

The stories of the villains in the expansions so far have had pretty direct closure, but that's never been the case for the two player factions. And one shouldn't expect it to be with the conclusion of any expansion. Things will continue to change and there will be an ongoing tit-for-tat between the Horde and Alliance. If you start the story at Warcraft I and move forward, that's evident. Leaders have changed. Cities have been destroyed. New cities have been created. Land has been gained and lost. The races who have allied with either side have changed.

It's going to keep going and we have no ambitions to decisively make one faction less interesting or cool than the other. That's not a good design philosophy for two playable factions and it doesn't make for a flourishing story.

But you will win some and you will lose some. And the wins and losses won't be at equal intervals for both sides, aligning with the release of each patch or expansion.



Were you unaware of the feeling that Alliance got hosed in this expansion? I don't think you were. Why, then, would the single tidbit of information released be the (possible?) destruction of Theramore? It fuels the fires you already know are burning. Exceedingly poor choice to release this scrap of information instead of something showing how the Alliance gains something at last.

So you have a group of people that feel (right or wrong) that they've been getting the short end for a pretty fair bit of time now and you choose to release a tidbit of how they're going to lose something else... then tell them its cool because that's not everything that's coming? They start to think "Nah, that's not everything, we'll lose other things too but maybe we'll get a tent in Un'Goro or something."

The feeling is the reason no information of Alliance gains were released or whatever is because they aren't worth talking about.
10/28/2011 01:40 PMPosted by Dragomaxxor
You have me all wrong if you think I'm qqing because we dont get the exact same wins as the horde I'm not, I'm complaining because the horde has been on the offensive this whole expansion and from lore stand point on the alliance they are doing nothing about it. I was horde till bc I love the horde, them taking things is great but so far on the alliance side from a lore stand point it's a weak faction they get their a** handed to them left and right in this expansion and don't respond to any of it. The fact that wogern get one tree in darn sucks compared to the goblins Teraforming an entire zone into a giant horde symbol. It would be nice to have some pride in the alliance but right now there isnt if you look at quests on our side.


The horde sort of had to be on the offensive it isn't like the Horde can afford to lose anymore territory when they were at a disadvantage to start with.. It is part of the problem with the inital balance in vanilla where Alliance just was too dominant. It isn't like the Alliance didn't go on the offensive in Cata they advanced in Swamp of Sorrows and invaded the Barrens. It is just there is more open conflict in the zones that were initial that were already in conflict. The story telling for the Alliance might also be an issue but from a balance perspective it isn't a big deal.

The story telling is the entire issue. We are paying for a game just like the horde are! We expect and deserve the exact same quality not quantity of content that the horde are delivered. That is the entire issue and problem.
It's not about balance I agree horde had to attack but it's like the alliance is blind to it there aren't any upset npcs going omg they kicked the worgen out of their city or h they used the palgue again on southshore or oh they are raising our dead to expand the forsaken. No we get npcs that go oh cool horde story bro we are leaving don't talk about what happened ever again and here's your reward bro. Alliance gets absolutely nothing to be prideful of, oh quit at blizzcon they remember us after shout for the horde or asking where's the horde at ok.. Now where's the alliance at.... Three seconds later wheres the horde at! Hell at last couple of years at blizzcon they were like yeah we need to work on so meting nice for the alliance to shout.... We are still waiting you want to know why cause they really don't care if they do it or not alliance having pride in the alliance isn't important when you have zeros of people screaming for the horde and the devs screaming it back.
The other reason people on alliance side is upset is because it's clear to everyone even horde players that alliance gets itself handed to them. Yet the posts from a blue is it's ok guys it's just the first move, no it isn't. Then the blue stats I play both factions and i just don't see it well 137 pages disagree with you. It's the fact that the devs don't see it that worries alliance the most, how can you rightly say oh the alliance didn't get it's a** kicked when it did in ever action throughout this expansion.
I for one, personally -AGREE- with Mr. Corpse Grinder and find this apology completely unnecessary! This is OUTRAGEOUS that Blizzard actually apologized, and would like them to immediately recant their apology! This is why we're having 'Occupy Wallstreet' going on right now.

Everyone gets so offended and feels entitled to things that they have neither earned nor deserve.

Like that apology.

King Fartbeard,
"Einstein had aspergers!"
It would be nice if a blue would reply and post point by point how we are wrong about the favoritism. Going "No there isn't!" and then ignoring the thread doesn't really help the situation. :-\
I'm only worried about Jaina. She's been a champion for both Factions.

You guys keep getting mad about Theramore, but we have no idea what the lore behind it is. What if some evil baddie has taken over Theramore and killed Jaina. What if there is a new plague there? What if there has been some nefarious conspiracy that has escalated the War? What if it is a misunderstanding?

I think we all need to wait and see where the story goes.

All that aside, as fired up as you guys are getting, you're falling right into the trap!

War is coming!
I look at it as a cycle vanilla (alliance), BC (horde), Wrath (alliance), and Cata (Horde). I think that is what blizzard is going for in their expansions. People keep forgetting just how alliance focused Wrath was. Other than Wrathgate/Battle for Undercity which you could say were equal for both alliance and horde. The story was primarily alliance. There was a Alliance quest chain in Storm Peaks with the uniting of the brothers Bronzebeard that was the equivalent of the Thrall Nagrand questline in BC.

Shall we look at the clear Alliance favoritism in Wrath in terms of story telling.
Bronzebeard Brothers Questline
Origin of Human
Origin of Gnomes
Victory in ICC (yes the alliance victory on gunship was canon)
Dwarf (Brann) leading expedition for Ulduar
Human Paladin (Tirion) leading Siege of ICC
Final Boss was former Human hero (Arthas)
New type of Dwarf

Horde story in Wrath
Wrathgate
Tanuka

I mean I think this is just blizzard's pattern with their story telling.

Puny alliance dogs are no match for the might of the Horde.

Horde story in Wrath
Wrathgate
Tanuka

I mean I think this is just blizzard's pattern with their story telling.


So, I take it, you never played in Zul Drak? More than 2/3rds of the ENTIRE ZONE is all based on Trolls and Horde.
Or how about the Blood Elf/High Elf epic sword quest? You know BE's are technically horde, right?
When you lead the assault on Scarlet Onslaught's island - a Forsaken Death Knight leads the way.
When you retake shadowvault, you are lead by a blood elf death knight.


LK was even.

You didn't lose any horde outposts to Alliance sneak attacks like Alliance did to horde in Cata and now in MoP.

You aren't even remotely close to claiming equivalency or underdog.
Let the horde keep taking alliance cities/towns.

Make them take over most of eastern kingdom, pushing towards Stormwind, then the Alliance will need help from neutral factions and truly face the "Axis" Power of the horde to dethrone the tyrant Garrosh.

Isn't that what the next expansion is suppose to be a bout? More War? It'd would make a fantastic storyline.. and similiar to WW2.

It would also open up a good way to "eliminate" Garrosh, Possibly make him the "End" boss of MoP.
Dwarf (Brann) leading expedition for Ulduar
Human Paladin (Tirion) leading Siege of ICC
Final Boss was former Human hero (Arthas)


I was taking your post seriously until this point. This just makes it look like you are stretching to make Wrath seem pro alliance.

Brann had no actual impact on the ulduar instance.

Tirion is not associated with the alliance, him being human has no bearing on things.

And really? Arthas use to be human so it makes the expansion pro alliance? Than bc was pro alliance because illidan was alliance and kealthas was alliance, and kiljadin and the draenai use to be the same race so he counts as alliance too.

You might as well call the forsaken a pro alliance race because they use to be human too!

Gotta love rediculous arguments...
Let the horde keep taking alliance cities/towns.

Make them take over most of eastern kingdom, pushing towards Stormwind, then the Alliance will need help from neutral factions and truly face the "Axis" Power of the horde to dethrone the tyrant Garrosh.

Isn't that what the next expansion is suppose to be a bout? More War? It'd would make a fantastic storyline.. and similiar to WW2.

It would also open up a good way to "eliminate" Garrosh, Possibly make him the "End" boss of MoP.


Here's the problem. There's not going to be a WWII style ending. Everyone knows this. The Allies literally carved germany into quarters and occupied Japan for years after the war. We know that isn't going to happen here, so trying to ramp things up to total war style stakes is a terrible story because anyone with a brain can see that the ending's just going to be a big letdown.
Dwarf (Brann) leading expedition for Ulduar
Human Paladin (Tirion) leading Siege of ICC
Final Boss was former Human hero (Arthas)


I was taking your post seriously until this point. This just makes it look like you are stretching to make Wrath seem pro alliance.

Brann had no actual impact on the ulduar instance.

Tirion is not associated with the alliance, him being human has no bearing on things.

And really? Arthas use to be human so it makes the expansion pro alliance? Than bc was pro alliance because illidan was alliance and kealthas was alliance, and kiljadin and the draenai use to be the same race so he counts as alliance too.

You might as well call the forsaken a pro alliance race because they use to be human too!

Gotta love rediculous arguments...


Not to mention that Tirion is from Lordaeron just like the Forsaken and from his inception as a character, it was to be a neutral character. And Arthas has more to do with the Forsaken than he ever will the Alliance humans. Not to mention Ner'zhul (Lich King before Arthas dominated) being and orc and all.

Speaking of which... All this Forsaken talk. He didn't mention ANY of the quests for the Forsaken in Wrath? Seriously? (Also, how many frost dwarves have we seen in Cata compared to Taunka?)

I also like how he tries to make it sound like ICC going down in lore as an Alliance victory as having any significance on his actual story experience as Horde in Wrath.

NOT TO MENTION, did you notice how he conveniently only brings up story? Notice how he didn't bring up content quality? Because he knows Horde content was equal in quality to the Alliance in Wrath, just like it was equal to Alliance in BC regardless of story favoring. That is NOT the case with Cata. We hardly got any decent story, nor did we get anywhere even remotely close to the level of quality the content was for Horde in Cata.

All that in addition to losing places we've had for 6 years due to leveling path redistribution. Now we get the unnecessary cherry on top with Theramore? And pray tell us how MoP being an Alliance centered expansion could EVER make up for Cata? Our 1-60 zones/quests will stay permanently unfinished. No faction story progression, no leader character development, entire zones stripped of decent story telling and atmosphere along with a giant string of losses to start off the "Putting the WAR back in Warcraft" story line that began in Wrath. It doesn't matter if we win EVERY battle in MoP, it still doesn't hold a candle to Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor.

Horde story in Wrath
Wrathgate
Tanuka

I mean I think this is just blizzard's pattern with their story telling.


So, I take it, you never played in Zul Drak? More than 2/3rds of the ENTIRE ZONE is all based on Trolls and Horde.
Or how about the Blood Elf/High Elf epic sword quest? You know BE's are technically horde, right?
When you lead the assault on Scarlet Onslaught's island - a Forsaken Death Knight leads the way.
When you retake shadowvault, you are lead by a blood elf death knight.


LK was even.

You didn't lose any horde outposts to Alliance sneak attacks like Alliance did to horde in Cata and now in MoP.

You aren't even remotely close to claiming equivalency or underdog.


I admit I forgot about Zul'Drak it has been a long time since I've leveled through Wrath but that doesn't change my point. The wrath story telling was very much Alliance centric. Who were the ones in Dragonblight taking on the dreadfortress Naxxaramas. It wasn't the horde there we were too occupied making plague and killing the scarlet onslaught. The sword thing I will give you only if you are willing to accept Alliance won in ICC and it was former Alliance heroes that helped seal that victory including Uther revealing the Truth about Lich King or Terenas Mass Rezzing everyone.

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