Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

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Alliance took half of barrens and camp Tarahjo and the outpost leading into stonetalon. Them losing one city is completely fair.
We get no major victories. Our quests are about damage control and mopping up after the Horde gets the epic victories. We don't even get satisfying conclusions. We get swept under the rug.

Conflict is good. Conflict is the soul of a story. Conflict is morally ambiguous, difficult to predict and raises the stakes. What you have is not a conflict. You have the Horde coming in, beating people up and then leaving.

It's not ambiguous, since the Horde are always the victorious aggressors. It's not difficult to predict, because the Horde always wins or at least gets in a good parting shot (as in the case of Taurajo). It's not raising the stakes because the Alliance isn't doing anything except getting killed.

We aren't upset that the Horde is attacking. We're upset that we're being relegated to the roles of NPCs.


The horde is fighting within itself. The racial leaders aren't too happy with Garrosh and we've even killed off one of our leaders. The fact that the horde is even stable enough to attack an alliance city with such force is surprising in itself.
People are not upset that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory. People are upset that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and the Alliance isn't allowed to fight back.
What makes you so certain that the Alliance won't be allowed to fight back? Zarhym is telling us as well as he can without spoiling anything that they probably will be.

Quit being a pessimist. For all you know this is an expansion where the Horde will be taking major hits.
10/23/2011 11:56 PMPosted by Zarhym
What I'm hearing from people is, that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and it's not fair. As a player of both factions at level 85 and employee at Blizzard, I just don't fully agree with that assessment. From our perspective, one faction will assault a cherished town of the other faction -- which is also home to a very powerful and honorable figure in Jaina. There's now a conflict presented in the story there to further unfold in the next expansion.


Clearly you don't pay much attention to context on the Alliance side of things. The occurrence of this war is consistently absent from the alliance side.

It can't be a war if only one side is fighting or even aware of the conflict.

Cata lore has been horde attacking everything while alliance sit back and ignorantly watch.

We apparently burn down Turajo, though no alliance player gets to participate in that, and all the connected quests tell us how terrible we are for doing it.

You're a liar if you think the alliance has equal involvement in this war.

It's not about winning, it's simply about getting to actually participate.

Southern barrens - alliance gets blown up
Swamp of sorrows - no appropriate phasing to show alliance actually does anything
Camp turajo - players can't participate and must be guilt-tripped about it
Andorhol - We attack undead, then are told to leave and we get told we lost. Not even allowed to experience it.
Gilneas - Worgen learn nothing about their own lore and are told to leave for no real reason so the zone can be an empty lot.

Let us participate, even if we lose.
10/23/2011 11:56 PMPosted by Zarhym
What I'm hearing from people is, that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and it's not fair. As a player of both factions at level 85 and employee at Blizzard, I just don't fully agree with that assessment. From our perspective, one faction will assault a cherished town of the other faction -- which is also home to a very powerful and honorable figure in Jaina. There's now a conflict presented in the story there to further unfold in the next expansion.


What exactly made the Alliance deem all the other Horde attacks on them, "Not worth it." Deathwing's around but it isn't like he is just a thorn in the Alliance's side. He is a thorn for the Horde too. With his death it is very surprising and also unrealistic that the Alliance wouldn't also start gearing up a larger war effort against the Horde. Why did they just decide that with Deathwing dead they don't need to make the Horde pay for all the atrocities in the past year?


and we freed him and he purfied the oceans and drove out the naga and their kracken. Did you even run ToT at all?


No, we didn't.


Correct we got him eaten by the kraken. The raid to free him was scrapped.
10/24/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Dusksworn
People are not upset that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory. People are upset that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and the Alliance isn't allowed to fight back.
What makes you so certain that the Alliance won't be allowed to fight back? Zarhym is telling us as well as he can without spoiling anything that they probably will be.

Quit being a pessimist. For all you know this is an expansion where the Horde will be taking major hits.


Agree. There's been enough Alliance qq tonight. Let the story unfold.


...They captured Neptulon


and we freed him and he purfied the oceans and drove out the naga and their kracken. Did you even run ToT at all?


One could ask you the same thing.

You didn't notice Ozumat sucking up Neptulon like a milkshake at the end?
I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.

-Isoroku Yamamoto

Jaina needs to just come out swinging her staff like she did in Hyjal. Pro mage is pro when they start swinging a staff at enemies.
Hey people. Stop pretending like your life is affected by your virtual faction is getting virtually destroyed. Nobody is really that delusional. If your that emotional over something like this, get your priorities in order. It's an assault. It happens in war. Do you think that there will be no repercussion? Do you honestly think that the alliance isn't going to want blood in return? Perfect way to set off a war. And the horde, with Garrosh at the helm should be the aggressors. And the alliance are going to do what they have to do. Varian isn't going to just sit back and take it.

People need to get off of Samwise and let the guy have fun. He's a rational human being. He knows that nobody out there is emotionally unstable enough to actually take what he's saying about a fictional faction seriously. People are looking to be offended. Just admit it.

And if it were org getting burned to the ground by alli, I would say "GREAT!" because I want some excitement. But get over yourselves and stop pretending that you're upset. If you are, maybe think about why you are.
10/24/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Borgnine
Correct we got him eaten by the kraken. The raid to free him was scrapped.

"Yay! Yay we saved Neptu-...oh...oh dear. QUICK just steal his stuff and RUN!"
10/24/2011 12:00 AMPosted by Dusksworn


No, the problem people have is that loss after loss after loss isn't fun for people.
I think he's hinting that the "loss after loss" won't keep up, in a very non-subtle manner that still allows him to keep his job at that.


Here's the problem...

The Horde needs to capture Theramore, or it needs to burn it down. Theramore has already been built up in the lore as nigh unattackable. It's heavily fortified. The might the Horde would need to bring down on it is incredible. It was designed to survive the punishment, having the Horde right next door.

So, while the Horde is focusing on this, Night Elves, Draenei, and Worgen should be ripping them a new backside, and Theramore should be aiding those three with reinforcements from SW and IF when they arrive.

The fact that the Orcs, people who know the art of war, are attacking Theramore in forces large enough to harm in, something that's been stated in the lore as being hard to do, implies that the other three factions up in Kalimidor are to weak to send any aid. In which case, there is no wins from that side either.

Now, they could do a Dues Ex, or an idiot ball moment, but then, that hurts the story for the Horde as well.
I foresee the events taking place like this:

The Cataclysm is said and done, Deathwing is defeated and the dragons return to their appointed duties of watching over the world. A keen summary is presented to Warchief Garrosh as to what blows were struck against the Horde after the Cataclysm. (look back to the Shattering, Garrosh looks for the tiniest loopholes to send himself into open war, and so his allies will support him as treaties are broken). The initial incurtion into Southern Barrens is enough for Garrosh to retaliate with the full might of the Horde, and his korkron begin to form a sizeable army to crush Theramore.

They sneak in to scout the place, it is dark, fridgid, and the roads are silent, not a single patrol in sight. The Korkron see this as a great blessing, not knowing that Rexxar actually tipped Jaina about the attack and she was there waiting for the initial wave of seasoned Korkron.

The first assault begins, and Jaina single handedly repeld 20 Korkron. The drums of war are sounded...there is conflict on the streets... citizens of Theramore are no stranger to war, and begin hand to hand combat with the Horde soldiers. It would appear Theramore is well defended, until three airships are seen in the distance. Jaina summons an ice storm to knock one down, but is interrupted by a body slam by none other than the Warchief Garrosh. Jaina sees that her city has little chance of victory with the impending doom the airships could reap. Knowing this to be her last chance, Jaina encases the Warchief in a block of ice and begins frantically opening portal after portal for her people to escape the onslaught. The sorceress is attacked from behind, gorehowl tearing into her upper shoulder...a shrill cry could be heard for miles as the Warchief wipes his mouth of her blood. Jaina drops her staff as the Warchief harries on for the final blow...but meets no resistance... Jaina teleported herself to the safety of Stormwind before the final blow landed.

The Warchief then continues to destroy Theramore and takes prisoners of war back with him to Orgrimmar.

A pissed off Jaina calls a summit with remnants of Stromgarde, Kul Tiras, Stormwind, and Dalaran... We see a different side of the Sorceress... one that only wishes for revenge...not to study!
10/23/2011 11:56 PMPosted by Zarhym
What I'm hearing from people is, that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and it's not fair. As a player of both factions at level 85 and employee at Blizzard, I just don't fully agree with that assessment. From our perspective, one faction will assault a cherished town of the other faction -- which is also home to a very powerful and honorable figure in Jaina. There's now a conflict presented in the story there to further unfold in the next expansion.


I would like to know where the conflict that is developed in story is present for siege of Gilneas without being forced to level a Forsaken character to understand prominent characters and/or major lore characters. Crowley becomes a non-factor for my faction unless I roll a Horde toon, in which I see how Crowley affects the Gilneas invasion, along with his fate and the whole freaking reason why there are Worgen in Shadowfang Keep. My first reaction to Ivar Bloodfang was 'who the heck is this guy?'.

Also, Southshore - I haven't really seen a real development of conflict for the total destruction of Southshore by the Forsaken via a weapon that has been banned by their Warchief. Maybe the conflict is prominent in Horde questing, and that's super - but it was an Alliance town, for Alliance players, and as an Alliance player I have been left to wonder how, and why this town has been literally melted off the face of the map, with absolutely zero reprecussion.

Again, I'll believe that there will be story development, a positive one at that, for the Alliance when I see it, rather then when I'm told about it.

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