Point Conversion Sellback Policy

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11/09/2011 01:14 PMPosted by Groku
Ok, so, say one is buying and selling pieces to remain under the honor/justice cap but have gear one can sell in their inventories to have more honor/justice than the cap would allow, will those itens, bought with honor/justice, also have the availability to be sold for the same currency and ammount they were bought vanished?


NO. This is EXACTLY what the OP said would NOT be possible.

I swear to God, the complete absence of reading comprehension from several of the posters in this thread is downright terrifying.

Here's what worries me, though: this mechanism works PERFECTLY to prevent people from doing exactly what this guy I quoted suggested: mad farming JP in the closing hours of 4.2, buying a bunch of ilvl 359 gear, and then, after patch, selling it back piecewise and buying ilvl378 along the way with your refunds - essentially, skirting the point caps, and making people actually have to work a little at the heroics post-patch before grabbing up all the 378 gear on the JP vendor. So why not just advertise it for that purpose?

Instead, they point out that this will apparently prevent someone from buying 378 gear with VP pre-patch, then selling it back for VP post-patch, which could then be used to buy whatever the new VP ilvl will be. Except, if this game was coded rationally, this would not be an issue in the first place. Why doesn't refunding an item just remove it from your inventory, and give you whatever its current price is in currency? In this case, a 4.2 VP item would be a 4.3 JP item, and thus, refunding it post-patch would give you JP instead of VP. If returning a 4.2 VP item would give you VP in 4.3, it's only because the item ITSELF "remembers" its purchase price - basically, it has a built-in receipt.

What a horribly inefficient and cumbersome measure. The only instance I can think of where a VENDOR'S prices change, besides down-conversions, is when a person's reputation with a faction changes. Are these really good enough reasons to warrant essentially adding yet another parameter to every vendor-purchased item on every character on every server, especially when by your own admission such a contrivance opens up its own cans of worms?

Edit: Wow, good catch Drala, you're absolutely right. I REALLY hope this was just a case of the OP not choosing their words carefully enough, but meaning to express the intent to shut down BOTH loopholes, instead of just Blizzard again being outsmarted by their own players in incredibly predictable fashions. We're not exactly talking about the cannon killing of Lord British in Ultima III here...http://www.gamestooge.com/2009/01/02/feature-the-day-lord-british-died/
Dearest Bashi,

It would likely be more prudent to ask this here. When the "bump down" happens, is it an exact 1:1 conversion for CP/VP to HP/JP? I cannot remember how it is done since it has only been implemented in the game one time.
I never understood why people find this so complicated, so here's the simple explanation:

Valor Points are for buying gear from the current tier.
Justice Points are for buying gear from previous tiers.

When a new content patch comes out, all current VP gear becomes JP gear. All current VP becomes JP. If you were saving VP to buy an item, you now are saving JP to buy that same item. You lose nothing when 4.3 comes out. You gain an easier ability to buy the now-previous-tier's gear to help catch up into raiding if you so wish.

Remember Wrath of the Lich King where we had a different currency every tier? We were always able to 'down-convert' into the currencies of previous tiers for those items, and everyone always started with a clean slate for the current tier. It was always very tedious, however, to have to convert Emblems of Frost > Triumph > Conquest > Valor > Heroism just to buy one epic gem.

The current system is exactly the same as it has been all throughout Wrath, it just consolidates all of the earlier currencies into one single currency for convenience.

As far as the sellback change: This happened in 4.1->4.2 as well, and the sole purpose is to ensure that you can't buy items to cheat the system (i.e. spending all your VP on items, riding the VP->JP conversion, and then refunding them to get VP that should have become JP.) All's it does is remove the "Hey, you can sell this back" timer, should there be one, on any item that has one. It doesn't matter when you bought the item, the timer is cleared.

As for why Blizzard doesn't make the items simply refund JP instead, I'm assuming a) it's a technical issue, and b) that'd give you a way to exceed the 4000 JP cap. The JP cap exists so you don't instantly get all shiny new gear when the currency downconversion happens, but still have to work for some of it.
Remember Wrath of the Lich King where we had a different currency every tier? We were always able to 'down-convert' into the currencies of previous tiers for those items, and everyone always started with a clean slate for the current tier.


It wasn't like that at first. You were stuck with the lower currencies unless you were raiding the newest tier. Random Dungeons changed that and gave tier-1 currency (now known as Justice Points). Before RDF, you hit a brick wall unless you raided.
Dearest Bashi,

It would likely be more prudent to ask this here. When the "bump down" happens, is it an exact 1:1 conversion for CP/VP to HP/JP? I cannot remember how it is done since it has only been implemented in the game one time.


It was a 1:1 conversion last time and there was a soft cap system in place.

For example:

I have 4000 VP 2700 JP
After the patch I'll have 0 VP 6700 JP. Some time later, if I don't spend those points it gets converted to money. I can't earn anymore JP until I drop 4000. Keeps me from wasting points.
Dearest Bashi,

It would likely be more prudent to ask this here. When the "bump down" happens, is it an exact 1:1 conversion for CP/VP to HP/JP? I cannot remember how it is done since it has only been implemented in the game one time.


It was a 1:1 conversion last time and there was a soft cap system in place.

For example:

I have 4000 VP 2700 JP
After the patch I'll have 0 VP 6700 JP. Some time later, if I don't spend those points it gets converted to money. I can't earn anymore JP until I drop 4000. Keeps me from wasting points.


Thank you Dearest Valun. I couldn't remember since it was only done one time.
11/09/2011 12:18 PMPosted by Shirlena
Say that the patch is Nov 15th


IF only.


/sigh

Still waiting...
Will we keep the existing JP we have when the patch hits or will they be reset?
I thought the whole REASON for the CAP was to limit how many a person could take into a content patch. At least this was the way it worked when Cata popped. You could stack 4000 Justice points and have it to spend on new gear.

Now it's just being wiped. Lame. Having come back from 7 months of leaving game to maybe try and get back into it... and to run dungeons to earn the weekly cap and cap out before patch has now been bust.

My plan was to buy a couple pieces of T12 and T13 and be ready to raid.

I guess I'm not really interested in in sticking around. Time to call teh credit card company to weasel out of the annual pass I agreed to.




LOL @ a Vaunted member upset at not being able to take advantage of something. Silly you! This has happened before and will again, the only one surprised is you apparently.
Asked once, I'll ask again: why is the link to the announcement of how the soft cap didn't work at the 4.2 patch?

The reference to "purchases within 2 hours of maintenance" is confusing, as several people have pointed out. There's no need to prevent people from returning items in those last two hours, the correct way to handle it is to wipe all returnable timers (for items purchased with HP/CP/JP/VP).

If this only affects purchases during those last two hours, then it solves nothing; you can still buy some honor gear, then grind as much honor in just under 2 hours, then log out. When you log in after the patch, you quickly buy some new gear, sell back the (still returnable) old gear, and thus get beyond the 4000 (or 8000 if there's a soft cap in effect) limit for buying a bunch of new stuff. This isn't as much of a problem if CP/VP gear sells back for HP/JP after the conversion (i.e. based on the current price rather than the original price), but it still lets you get a 2 hour head start on everyone else after the patch.

What I haven't been able to find is whether the soft cap that was part of the conversion last time is intended to be in effect this time (presumably done correctly this time). See the linked article for the explanation/description of how the soft cap was messed up last time.

Also, please clarify that it will be Season 10 gear immediately after the patch, and that people may want to wait to upgrade until the Season 11 honor gear becomes available. Last time it was not clear, and many people spent a lot of time upgrading all their gear, only to have new gear come along.
Dearest Bashi,

It would likely be more prudent to ask this here. When the "bump down" happens, is it an exact 1:1 conversion for CP/VP to HP/JP? I cannot remember how it is done since it has only been implemented in the game one time.


It was a 1:1 conversion last time and there was a soft cap system in place.

For example:

I have 4000 VP 2700 JP
After the patch I'll have 0 VP 6700 JP. Some time later, if I don't spend those points it gets converted to money. I can't earn anymore JP until I drop 4000. Keeps me from wasting points.


I'm confused. You're saying it's a soft cap. Others are saying it's a hard cap. I seem to recall the intent last time being soft cap but getting boogered up in the process. Does anyone know for sure if it's a hard cap or soft cap (hopefully un-boogered) for 4.3?
Well.. this will make things a lil easier for my new druid. Now I can use her stocked up jp at 85 for something nice.
Why are they being converted in the first place? As a fairly casual player I've barely made any headway getting Valor or Conquest points and now the few I have are going to be down-converted? Lame.

Why couldn't you have made is so any Valor or Conquest over a certain amount, other than zero (like, say, 1,000 or, heck, even 100), be converted leaving some of us with the few points we have? Would that really have been so game breaking?


They have already been doing something similar throughout WLK.
E.g. Introducing a new tier of badges.
Problem, kid?
Asked once, I'll ask again: why is the link to the announcement of how the soft cap didn't work at the 4.2 patch?

The reference to "purchases within 2 hours of maintenance" is confusing, as several people have pointed out. There's no need to prevent people from returning items in those last two hours, the correct way to handle it is to wipe all returnable timers (for items purchased with HP/CP/JP/VP).

If this only affects purchases during those last two hours, then it solves nothing; you can still buy some honor gear, then grind as much honor in just under 2 hours, then log out. When you log in after the patch, you quickly buy some new gear, sell back the (still returnable) old gear, and thus get beyond the 4000 (or 8000 if there's a soft cap in effect) limit for buying a bunch of new stuff. This isn't as much of a problem if CP/VP gear sells back for HP/JP after the conversion (i.e. based on the current price rather than the original price), but it still lets you get a 2 hour head start on everyone else after the patch.

What I haven't been able to find is whether the soft cap that was part of the conversion last time is intended to be in effect this time (presumably done correctly this time). See the linked article for the explanation/description of how the soft cap was messed up last time.

Also, please clarify that it will be Season 10 gear immediately after the patch, and that people may want to wait to upgrade until the Season 11 honor gear becomes available. Last time it was not clear, and many people spent a lot of time upgrading all their gear, only to have new gear come along.


I am sure when ppl get a rough idea of the patch time, they will buy gear well in advance of the 2 hour timer and stay logged so the timer don't reset on them. Then when 4.3 goes live they will return it since the timer will probably still be up and return for VP or conquest. Unless Blizzard removes the timer or ability to refund the gear for the same VP / Conquest it was originally purchase prior to 4.3 release it will still be exploited. Hopefully to put everyone on same playing field they would only allow the gear to be sold back for whatever the current currency for the item is in game regardless of being prior to 4.3. One would think they would have thought of it, but I would have to say NOT since it happened with the previous release.
With the release of 4.3 all Valor Points will be down-converted to Justice Points, and all Conquest Points will be down-converted to Honor Points. To curb the ability to sell items back to the vendors after the conversion for the higher currency, we’re instituting a new sellback policy for items purchased directly before currency down-conversions.

Items purchased within the two hour window before the release of 4.3 will lose their ability to be sold back to the vendor when the realms are brought down for maintenance. No refunds will be granted for items purchased during this time, either by the in-game vendors, or our support departments.

As an example, I buy an item at 2:30 a.m. The servers come down for the release of 4.3 half an hour later. Normally I would still have an hour and a half after the servers return to sell the item back to the vendor. With this policy change though, upon logging in my item can no longer be sold back to the vendor.

This policy is only in effect for maintenances that include currency down-conversions, such as the release of 4.3. To ensure you don’t purchase the wrong item with the inability to sell it back, we recommend buying well before the final two hours so there’s time to change any incorrect purchases.


So what you are saying is if we buy an item a week in advance, don't log in for a week+ we can resell it for the valor we bought it for after the patch is live?
more like the 29th :D
If we buy gear now and keep timers refreshed (say the full 22k) and then log out right now, and don't log back into wow until 4.3 will we be able to sell the gear back?

11/21/2011 12:33 PMPosted by Sprixx
If we buy gear now and keep timers refreshed (say the full 22k) and then log out right now, and don't log back into wow until 4.3 will we be able to sell the gear back?

You have your own thread on this where you've ignored all reasonable explanation of the policy... stop trolling.

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