The Cleric's Codex [A PvE FAQ; 4.3]

Priest
Prev 1 2 3 13 Next
And a final post to tip it to the next page. Patience, please! ♥
Didn't you make this earlier? o_O What happened to that? D:
Nvm, found it.
To quote my mother: Merciful heavens!

Three hours of severe editing, formatting, jostling, wheedling, begging and praying later...



And I only have three posts for expansion. D:
Note: Can any serious theorycrafter tell me if Artful Ember Topaz is ever an acceptable choice over Reckless Ember Topaz? Intuition tells me that, for players between haste breakpoints, it is.


not really worth it in the long run. mastery is, except at very tiny windows of opportunity (which i basically have always blatantly disregarded, because i'm a jerk), not close to equal with haste in terms of dps return. this is due mostly to the fact that haste increases the damage of every facet of our abilities. it allows us to cast more often, finish casts faster, and also adds extra ticks (at certain breakpoints) of dots... mastery, on the other hand, gives flat damage increases to most of our spells (in the cast of periodic: with ES active, in the case of MB, with orbs available).

this is useful information, i promise:

http://lesgrognards.net/forums/gallery/8_19_10_11_10_55_14.jpeg
http://lesgrognards.net/forums/gallery/8_19_10_11_10_55_21.jpeg


e: opener... i would also add that personally (ymmv, lol shadow openers) after dots i throw shadowfiend out due to the fact that a) procs will likely have started, increasing it's damage, and may end before you can get ES going/refresh vt/dp with ES and procs, b) throwing shadowfiend out before starting to MF takes advantage of the fact that through sin and punishment, crits of MF lower the shadowfiend cooldown. the more times you can fit fiend in a fight, the better. the difference is somewhat negligible, but on the longer fights, there will most likely be a difference.

this is especially important in my guild, where heroism waits for no man, BUT GUYS SHADOWFIEND UP IN 3 SECONDS FUUUUUUUUUUU

e2(see, i'm keeping them in one post to keep things organized): section on MB and ES and how they relate makes sense to someone like me, but not a lot of beginner shadowpriests understand that vt and dp can be refreshed just before ES runs out if you are severely RNGorb starved and then you have additional time to both a) MB and b) get an orb for ES. you know this, i know this... but it's worth mention for clarity's sake.

e3: as far as gemming goes, until a specific value of int (approx 6000-6100 buffed), as far as i know, secondary stats come nowhere close enough in value to bother socketing anything less than a 20 int value slot (say, red/yellow gems +20 int -- reckless gem in the yellow, because you're obviously equalizing the int gain). perhaps going for haste "breakpoints" is worth it, but at any other time, where int = 1 pp value, haste and the other stats never really break above .5... unfortunately. remember icc haste pp value being like .9? hahaha
This is wonderful. Requested for sticky.

Also, you spelled Gnomer wrong. Gnomeregan, not -agan!
Updated.

@Tsilyi: I want to include those graphs, but their axes aren't labelled and would probably be incomprehensible to new priests.
11/22/2011 12:34 PMPosted by Elethia
@Kyllie


please do not confuse us, and no. don't include those graphs, i just wanted to show you where i was coming from rofl. they're from this thread:

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=30303
11/22/2011 12:54 PMPosted by Tsilyi
please do not confuse us


This is my brain.

This is my brain on Full Throttle.

Ugh.
I'm deeply hurt.
Synapse Springs last 10 sec, not 12.

Tracking Rapture ICD isn't helpful because the event triggering the mana return is random. What this means is that if you delay PW:S to match ICD, you'll get fewer Rapture procs than the person casting PW:S blindly on schedule. More importantly, if you're casting PW:S based on Rapture you're doing it wrong - both the actual shielding provided and Borrowed Time scheduling are significantly more important than Rapture.

Glyph of Psychic Scream is effectively a pure nerf to your baseline Psychic Scream. When the mobs don't run away, that means they also don't have to spend the time to run back - effectively halving the duration of your control effect. Since you can almost always control whether or not they flee into a secondary spawn based on smart positioning, there's no real upside to having them stand in place.

Spirit of Redemption is almost never taken by PvE Holy specs because 15 secs of extra healing is miniscule compared to "the entire remainder of the raid down one healer". It's a PvP talent.

Blessed Resilience isn't so much an "advanced choice" as "I have nowhere else to dump those points". Blessed Resilience rarely ever procs in PvE and even when it does, it has a tendency to proc in a minimally useless fashion. Keep in mind that if the Holy Priest is damaged, they're either healing themselves with Binding Heal (which is already fast enough) or Prayer of Healing (which gains no real benefit from extra healing on the Priest over other targets). As a general rule, any talent that makes the healer easier to heal/harder to damage is significantly worse than a talent that improves efficiency/output because while the Priest only receives a small fraction of the damage dealt they perform a large percentage of the healing done.

Renew usage is an issue you touch on peripherally, but it worth mentioning. Renew is the most efficient single target healing spell Holy Priests have, so depending on your raid composition/content, you may end up using Renew for large chunks of your healing. The greater the emphasis on Renew, the less valuable Mastery becomes. In 5-mans, critical is almost strictly better than mastery since you're spending most of your time in Serenity Chakra and letting your Renews tick until players are damaged enough to bother with direct heals and you're almost always casting a Renew on a target before hitting them with a direct heal. However, the auto-refresh mechanic means that if you're just healing a set group of targets, Rapid Renewal would be less useful due to the auto-refresh.
I know that in practice it's not terribly important (we would never gear for it), but Holy Fire is affected by Haste Breakpoints, too. It receives an 8th tick at about 8% haste and a 9th around 22% haste.

The list is currently for affected spells, in which case Holy Fire fits. It could be changed to something about noteworthy or significant affected spells if it seems better to leave the relatively unimportant (for purposes of Haste Breakpoints) Holy Fire off.


You may consider adding Inner Sanctum as a possible use of the last 2 points in the Shadow spec. The spell damage reduction can be valuable in high magic-damage encounters.


This looks nice, great work ^.^
11/22/2011 01:17 PMPosted by Calaris
Synapse Springs last 10 sec, not 12.


Thanks.

Tracking Rapture ICD isn't helpful because the event triggering the mana return is random. What this means is that if you delay PW:S to match ICD, you'll get fewer Rapture procs than the person casting PW:S blindly on schedule. More importantly, if you're casting PW:S based on Rapture you're doing it wrong - both the actual shielding provided and Borrowed Time scheduling are significantly more important than Rapture.


The event isn't nearly as random as you say. Barring times of exceedingly heavy dodge/parry, a shield should be popped within 1-3 seconds of being placed on a tank currently holding threat on a raid boss.

A good priest is able to maximize uptime on PW:Shield as well as the returns from Rapture.

Anecdotal evidence: tracking the ICD increased my returns from Rapture, and I saw an overall increase in my healing because I became even more conscious of my PW:Shield use.

Moreover, nowhere did I say that you should be casting PW:Shield exclusively based on the ICD.

Glyph of Psychic Scream is effectively a pure nerf to your baseline Psychic Scream. When the mobs don't run away, that means they also don't have to spend the time to run back - effectively halving the duration of your control effect. Since you can almost always control whether or not they flee into a secondary spawn based on smart positioning, there's no real upside to having them stand in place.


When the mobs don't run away, they don't bring friends back to visit.

Spirit of Redemption is almost never taken by PvE Holy specs because 15 secs of extra healing is miniscule compared to "the entire remainder of the raid down one healer". It's a PvP talent.


When raids are cutting healers to beat dps checks, being a healer down can be devastating.

You also seem to be hyper-focused on raids. Many of the players who enter these threads are new and inexperienced, and many will never raid. If a healer dies in a 5-man, the group often follows. The same often holds true for PuG raids.

Blessed Resilience isn't so much an "advanced choice" as "I have nowhere else to dump those points". Blessed Resilience rarely ever procs in PvE and even when it does, it has a tendency to proc in a minimally useless fashion. Keep in mind that if the Holy Priest is damaged, they're either healing themselves with Binding Heal (which is already fast enough) or Prayer of Healing (which gains no real benefit from extra healing on the Priest over other targets). As a general rule, any talent that makes the healer easier to heal/harder to damage is significantly worse than a talent that improves efficiency/output because while the Priest only receives a small fraction of the damage dealt they perform a large percentage of the healing done.


Is it worth taking in heroic dungeons? No.
Is it worth taking in normal raids? Only when they're the height of current progression.
Is it worth taking in heroic raids? Many theorycrafting/high-progress priests appear to think so.

I call it advanced because it's taken primarily in progressive/highly progressive content, where every bit of healing--including self-healing--counts. Which is exactly what I said in my original post. I'm not certain why you bring the speed of Binding Heal into focus. How quickly you cast the spell doesn't affect the healing it provides, when the healing is buffed by a talent.

Renew usage is an issue you touch on peripherally, but it worth mentioning. Renew is the most efficient single target healing spell Holy Priests have, so depending on your raid composition/content, you may end up using Renew for large chunks of your healing. The greater the emphasis on Renew, the less valuable Mastery becomes. In 5-mans, critical is almost strictly better than mastery since you're spending most of your time in Serenity Chakra and letting your Renews tick until players are damaged enough to bother with direct heals and you're almost always casting a Renew on a target before hitting them with a direct heal. However, the auto-refresh mechanic means that if you're just healing a set group of targets, Rapid Renewal would be less useful due to the auto-refresh.


As I mentioned in the first post, this FAQ will be in a state of constant revision. Spell usage and priority for both Discipline and Holy priests will be included, as will the ever-debated stat priorities.
11/22/2011 01:55 PMPosted by Mer
Now this I disagree with. Renew is the most efficient single target heal? My Renew barely heals for as much as my regular Heal as holy. So maybe with all of the Renew talents and the glyph, it heals for more and it's somehow more efficient (with 3/3 Mental Agi and also Inner Will)... but can you give us numbers or proof of this?


Well, I can actually answer this. Iff you're in a situation where you're in Serenity and able to refresh Renew consistently on multiple targets, it becomes incredibly efficient.

That said, in my experience, there aren't many Firelands fights (on Normal; I can't, so won't, speak to Heroic modes) that cater to that sort of healing.
11/22/2011 02:15 PMPosted by Mer
Definitely not in heroic. It's a whole lotta PoH. And in 5mans, I'd still opt for PoH unless the fight was going to somehow last more than a minute.


Well, in 5-mans, I'm super lazy because I can afford to be. But for a new priest, I would nearly always advise remaining in Serenity.
The event isn't nearly as random as you're.


nani?

Glyph of Psychic Scream is effectively a pure nerf to your baseline Psychic Scream. When the mobs don't run away, that means they also don't have to spend the time to run back - effectively halving the duration of your control effect. Since you can almost always control whether or not they flee into a secondary spawn based on smart positioning, there's no real upside to having them stand in place.


When the mobs don't run away, they don't bring friends back to visit.


That glyph is excellent in dungeons - must have if you're a screamer. Not needed in PvP (I want some distance and hopefully it wears off when he's waaay far away.) I also wouldn't use it solo cuz I want my mobs to go get more friends while I stand in one spot killing them all. Saves wear and tear on my shoes.
I don't disagree with the entire post Calaris, but

[quote]
Now this I disagree with. Renew is the most efficient single target heal? My Renew barely heals for as much as my regular Heal as holy. So maybe with all of the Renew talents and the glyph, it heals for more and it's somehow more efficient (with 3/3 Mental Agi and also Inner Will)... but can you give us numbers or proof of this?

The only time I cast Renew is if I'm in Serenity and tank healing. I definitely don't put it on multiple people in a 5man with the intention of keeping it refreshed via Heal. That's what Prayer of Healing is for. And Lightwell. And PoM. In a raid setting it's even less useful. You will never see the full effect of a Renew unless you say, "Everyone stop healing Joe DPS, I have placed Renew on him, so he will be topped off in 10 seconds."


I am not Calaris.

I assume he's referring to casting renew once, and refreshing it with direct heals in the serenity chakra. In this scenario, Renew is extremely mana efficient. Free healing on the back of heals you'd otherwise normally cast.

Keeping a rolling renew on a raid tank is very helpful.
Looks good... a few disagreements.

First, Rapid Renewal. Keep in mind Renew is not the only spell effected by this talent. It reduces the GCD on the Renew spell. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this translates to "when I cast Renew, I am stuck waiting on the GCD for less time". This means that anything you cast following a Renew will take less time to "get out" if you have taken this talent. AKA, it effects any spell you cast immediately following Renew.

I do not believe Rapid Renewal to be an amazing, mandatory talent. I just think it's slightly incorrect to suggest the talent is exclusively useful for "renew blanketing".


The second area of concern is in regards to the Shadow section.

I am fairly certain Empowered Shadows also provides a bonus to Mind Flay and Mind Sear. I do not believe this was included and feel it is worth mentioning to be thorough.

I would advise against gemming specifically for Haste breakpoints. To make a long story short, Haste breakpoints are often over-valued for Shadow. Many people blindly assume DoT durations always remain at their base value. The issue is Blizzard fibbed when they said this was the case upon the release of Cataclysm.

If you're looking at a yellow socket with a +10 Int bonus it may make sense to gem for the socket with a Reckless Ember Topaz (so, +30 int/20 Haste instead of +40 Int) if it will push you over the break point, provided you have enough gear (that 6k-6.3k Int area). The thing is it would make sense to gem for the socket in that situation anyway (anyone considering this make sure to sim their character first). Sacrificing 40 Intelligence for 40 Haste, on the other hand, just for the sake of a break point never makes sense IMO.


Lastly, and this isn't of incredible importance, there is a typo in the Holy section under the "How does my regen work?" section. I do not believe you intended to include the word "is" in that sentence :).

The rest looks good.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum